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05 Feb 2018 10:24:44
Seen rumours flying around about Wilshire and i expect there nothing in them but. There's a cracking player inside Wilshire bubbling beneath the surface and if someone cough'Klopp'cough could get him focused and professional he'd certainly be an improvement on Wiji.

I'd see him as the back up to Henderson and we should be able to get most of a season out of two sick notes combined.

PutneyRed

1.) 05 Feb 2018 10:50:10
If he stayed fit all season I would take him all day, but doubt he could, we had these probs wid lallana sturridge an too a lesser extent clyne, important players we need playing firing fit, Wilshire is quality though for free would b worth the gamble.


2.) 05 Feb 2018 11:17:42
He is being looked as - 30 games a season for the next 2 seasons and properly managed unlike what Wenger is doing he will blossom at LFC.


3.) 05 Feb 2018 11:45:27
Another Joe Cole in my eyes. Steer well clear.


4.) 05 Feb 2018 12:24:12
That's harsh mad max.

Joe Cole could play football.


5.) 05 Feb 2018 13:27:25
Absolutely woeful player who gets lauded because he’s English and had one good game in his career. Would be fuming if we bought him because there are far better and less injury prone players around. He creates few chances, he offers no goal threat and is defensively frail.


6.) 05 Feb 2018 14:41:48
it would just be like Liverpool to sign a player like whilshire, how does he strengthen the midfield? all he would be good for would be keeping Henderson company when hendo is injured, we need to be looking at far better quality than this, I only hope this is a silly rumour and nothing more.


7.) 05 Feb 2018 22:10:54
Hardly a woeful player what a ridiculous comment although I’m hardly suprised. he is an excellent player with unfortunate luck wi injuries. if fit and at his best he would improve our centre midfield no end. problem is that the fitness can’t be relied upon. bad track record so stay clear imo.


8.) 05 Feb 2018 22:50:00
Wiltshire would be an upgrade on Grujic, Can and Gini in my opinion. If Klopp wants him then I’m happy.


9.) 06 Feb 2018 02:06:19
"theres a cracking player inside wilshire" Are you implying him and Ozil are about to make some sort of announcement?


10.) 06 Feb 2018 08:16:56
I wouldn’t be keen on him mainly due to injuries but he’s in his best form for years (not a difficult task) and wouldn’t maybe worth a punt if his wages aren’t too high and we don’t have to pay a fee.


11.) 06 Feb 2018 09:26:34
He gets stuck in and can play the ball, which is something we lack in midfield, if he stays fit and when he’s on the pitch he breaks up the play and releases the ball well then I would take him but only on a free to be fair, plus if he leaves Hitchin (his hometown) then he will be more focused on football and not on certain other things that have held his career back.


12.) 06 Feb 2018 23:00:06
He's not dedicated enough, he doesn't train hard enough, he's injured too much, he smokes and drinks in his free time/ weekends, he is miles away from the quality we should be looking at if we want to genuinely improve our midfield. Klopp is a decent coach, he is not a magician and he cannot magical transform unprofessional, uninterested players into world beaters. Wilshere will always be a case of what could have been - let another side take a punt and pay him extortionate wages, this is the exact sort of signing we need to avoid.


 

 

07 Sep 2017 16:15:37
How's this for a conspiracy theory, a factor in deciding to keep Moreno was to ensure Coutinho had a close friend in the squad.

PutneyRed

1.) 07 Sep 2017 17:50:33
Moreno is klopps long lost lovechild only way to explain it.


2.) 07 Sep 2017 19:00:20
And Roberto Firmino isn't a close friend of Coutinho?


3.) 07 Sep 2017 19:54:02
Except that Klopp wanted rid of coutinho at the end.


4.) 07 Sep 2017 19:59:49
you'd think he would've kept lucas for that.


5.) 07 Sep 2017 20:10:25
Reid, just because they're both Brazilian doesn't make them best mates.


6.) 07 Sep 2017 20:15:50
He definitely is closer too moreno, moreno has a good character round the dressing room I hope he can somehow come good.

{Ed025's Note - and i want everton to win the CL hailstones...same chance..


7.) 07 Sep 2017 20:21:34
Or that Moreno has improved?

{Ed025's Note - silk purses and sows ears and all that..


8.) 07 Sep 2017 20:32:58
See his face from the bench.


9.) 07 Sep 2017 20:45:48
Moreno hasn't improved imo, he's been just as bad this season. I do however know from someone who works for the club that he's a top bloke.

{Ed025's Note - aah thats nice cobra..


10.) 07 Sep 2017 21:03:15
Ed25 seems like a nice bloke but then you remember he's a biter!


11.) 07 Sep 2017 22:06:29
Klopp said through out last season that the best in training in terms of attitude and commitment, is Moreno.


12.) 07 Sep 2017 23:08:39
Is pipco back in training?


13.) 07 Sep 2017 23:25:24
Big season ahead for Moreno. From what I saw, it was his pre season appearaces that kept him at the club,
He's another year older now and hopefully not as wrash in his decision making,

FB must be the hardest position on the pitch to play, you really need eyes in the back of your head.


14.) 08 Sep 2017 00:34:39
Yes and we kept Bogdan whom is a close friend of markovic whom is a close friend of Moreno whom of co as you said is a close friend of Coutinho.


15.) 08 Sep 2017 00:03:44
Proper neg ead u ed 025 he can improve can't he, also he has shown in the past he has had good games he has room too improve young lad comin too different league, he could b adapting, jus needs too find consistency.

{Ed025's Note - im a realist hailstones, he has been at the club for 3 years now so how long do you want to wait for him to improve?...just admit hes a lemon like karius, thats the problem with liverpool supporters they cant admit that some of their players are sub standard mate..


16.) 08 Sep 2017 06:53:30
Moreno is average going forward and when he gets beaten in defence and has to chase back he is a liability. Can't tackle and is so rash when chasing back that he gives free kicks away in dangerous areas and penalties.

Who cares if he is a nice guy.
Hate player bashing but he has a long way to go to win the fans over.


17.) 08 Sep 2017 08:53:36
Ed25, us LFC fans use to get a lot of stick for not "getting behind" players or "slagging them off" and now your saying we can't admit sub standard?
Everton fans are so delirious its quite scary. 😂🙈.

{Ed025's Note - encouragement is fine kopette, but lets not pretend that all reds players are world beaters thats all, some of them are of course (mane,couts) but there is also a lot of dross in there as well, lets just be honest mate..


18.) 08 Sep 2017 09:52:57
Were not sayin that ed 025, we sayin the lad is learning his trade he young look at david luiz no one would say he could improve look at salah also victor moses, if this season he constantly makin mistakes ok we hold our hands up, but if he shows improvement give the lad a chance, I think he can offer something an he has quality.

{Ed025's Note - we are all entitled to our opinions hailstones, the fact that you dont recognise a nugget when you see one still perplexes me though mate..


19.) 08 Sep 2017 10:15:35
Beddoerocks, you say Moreno can't tackle but I was reading an article yesterday that stated he is our leading tackler this season with 9, Matip is second on 8.


20.) 08 Sep 2017 11:09:41
Ed025, how can you call Karius a lemon? Lads only played a few games for us and he's young.

Certiainly not going to praise him yet as tour next great no 1 but don't you think it's fair to wait and see how he turns out before passing judgement? Looking through the those toffee spectacles again?!

{Ed025's Note - i have this philosophy you see hamish...if a guy knocks at my door wearing a green curly wig, bulbous red nose, yellow check suit and size 27 boots then i think to myself...this guys a clown, i dont need to interview him mate, i can tell straight away..


21.) 08 Sep 2017 12:07:48
Hahaha ok ed 025, I just like too see my glass is half full than half empty he has put in good performances an shown too b a decent left back admittedly in beginning of his liverpool career but why can't he improve mate he has time on his side, I was his biggest doubter last 2 seasons I know why u say wat u do, but this a make or break season for him, he is showin signs of getting better so I have too get behind him.

{Ed025's Note - and thats ok by me hailstones...hows the weather today in cloud cuckoo land mate.. :)


22.) 08 Sep 2017 12:09:18
Moreno isn't a nugget he a professional footballer getting paid handsomely.

{Ed025's Note - in our local Mcdonalds they now sell chicken morenos...so you could be wrong mate..


23.) 08 Sep 2017 13:09:55
Hahaha I am more into subway.


24.) 08 Sep 2017 12:50:51
Ed025, really? Come on mate you are being a little bit over the top. Moreno and Karius are both young and moved from different leagues.

Did you assume that De Gea was a lemon when he first joined United? With his comedy goal keeping and his lack of any physicality? His first season was an absolute disaster and now look at him, he's arguably one of the top 5 in the world as a keeper.

I'm not for one moment saying that Karius will get this good, I'm just saying his situation is comparable to De Gea, although I think De Gea actually had a worse first season than Karius, so we should give him a chance.

{Ed025's Note - im all for giving him a chance hsf, but he has yet to prove he is anything more than a liability so at the moment he is certainly a lemon, will he improve..possibly but until he does i think its fair to assume he is not up to the job, moreno has had 3 years and if he has not made the transition by now then we can reasonable assume hes a dud, its not all his fault though as it seems the coaching defensively at least is certainly lacking at liverpool mate..


25.) 09 Sep 2017 08:00:33
How anyone can say that Moreno hasn't had enough time to prove himself is beyond me! 1 good pre season game and everyone thinks he's Ashley Cole. He has proven time and time again he doesn't have the aptitude for being a left back and he's done nothing this season to prove me otherwise.
Training hard, having the right attitude and being a top bloke should not be enough to keep you in a team wanting to win honours.

{Ed025's Note - im with you cobra..


26.) 10 Sep 2017 20:02:35
Tizer I am not making my comment based on 2 or 3 games.

Moreno is not a good defender when turned. Season after season we have seen that. By all means throw stats around 93% of people know stats can used to prove a incorrect opinion 😁.


27.) 10 Sep 2017 22:05:34
We need a stable back 4. Chopping and changing is not ideal. We should try and develop a steady first back 4 to enable an understanding to develop. Stick Robertson in the LB slot TAA in RB slot and settle on a first choice CB pairing (Loren and Matip for me)

Klopp needs to commit as we have the players but they rarely ever play more than one game together.

If klopp rates Moreno then fine. But stand by the decision and give him a run in the team with a steady defensive line that can cover his shortcomings.


 

 

15 Aug 2017 14:12:13
Ed1, is there any indication from your sources that the reason for Coutinho missing games is anything other than injury?

PutneyRed

{Ed001's Note - not at the moment, but he is close to fitness, so it will be interesting to see if he is still missing games after the weekend.}


1.) 15 Aug 2017 15:53:58
Tite has said that he will only consider players who play regularly for the WC squad, even if it is Coutinho. If the club holds firm and keep him, he needs to build bridges and get into the team and have a good season if he wants to play in the WC.


2.) 15 Aug 2017 16:03:57
Cou is not that much of a sulker anyway as downing tools is not his thing. He may need time to clear his head but he will give his all esp. as his WC place is at stake as Tite does not play favorites like his incompetent predecessors Dunga and esp. Scolari.


3.) 15 Aug 2017 16:17:31
Its a shame the club couldn't sort it out behind closed doors. The lad deserves his chance at barcelona. Hope he goes on and smashes it this season wherever he plays. I want to see him at the world cup.


4.) 15 Aug 2017 16:23:21
Look, the kid wants to go, he'll be on the front of video games. Think in terms of a career, when you get offered a promotion you rarely turn it down. No offence to lfc, My first love. Reckon we might keep him until January. And I think you're right, he is not a sulker. He is still going to love us. Ynwa.


5.) 15 Aug 2017 16:25:51
Thanks Ed, I hoped that was the case.


6.) 15 Aug 2017 16:57:51
Barcelona bidding at 7:30 would be interesting though. 15 mins before kickoff, with the players wondering if he would be sold before the end of the 1st half. Lol.
Unless they don't get to see the news.


7.) 15 Aug 2017 19:30:27
If the club decides Coutinho is going nowhere and goes on and refuses to play for us then I will loose all respect. Then he can rot.

Suarez spat out his dummy when he found out he was not leaving immediately but still gave his all on the pitch irrespective of him being miff.


8.) 16 Aug 2017 00:54:09
I fail to realize why he'd want to go to Barca. I'm serious when I say that we look more prospecting then that lot at the moment. They will need Suarez, Iniesta, Alves, Messi, Alba and Neymar replacements by a few years time, without them their squad is nothing. Not to mention his best friend left them too. And in that case PSG I'd understand with the whole Brazilian entourage, but Barcelona is falling and makes no sense.

{Ed002's Note - They are not failing that much. They will have plauyers like Dembele and Coutinho - they will look again to Dybala next summer. They are successful in Europe and Domestically.}


9.) 16 Aug 2017 07:23:43
Lol. Biggest club in the world not that good. If they're no good then can you please tell me what football tou are watching. "If they didn't have *list sll their players* they would be no good. " what? If my house had no roof then I would get wet. But it has got a roof and now znd then needs a bit of attention. Players are so much more intelligent as they reach their peak 27 - 31 and more likely to go well in knock out comps. Barcelona are very dangerous. We beat bayern, we beat chelsea arsenal city and spurs last term. Barcelona would try to play football with us and thus would be playing right into our hands.


10.) 16 Aug 2017 08:17:46
If they're not that good, god knows what we are then. I was not convinced last night. That midfield and defence is poo.


11.) 16 Aug 2017 15:06:47
Defence was class last night. We won, away from home at a very decent side. Our boys tactics were near perfect. Hoffenhiem may have more of the ball but that is how liverpool played it. Last night the result was more important than playing silky football. If not for fantastic defending we would have more work to do at anfield.


12.) 16 Aug 2017 15:41:25
Can I have some of what your on please Superred91.


13.) 16 Aug 2017 16:54:25
I'm afraid you can't Lancaster. Steven Gerrard called the defence brilliant last night and I agree. I though we defended excellently.


14.) 16 Aug 2017 17:05:48
Did you see how we let them have the ball? We didn't press them how we normally do. It was the game plan to soak up their pressure and punish them on the break. This is European football and hoffenhiem were a decent side who are very strong at home. Teams are always going to get through. Ok lovren wasn't amazing but he did make some vital interceptions and tackles, headers. Look. We won. Somewhere bayern and dortmund came unstuck.


15.) 16 Aug 2017 20:08:56
Our defence has many faults and they have been awful at times. I admit to going a bit OTT when it comes to rating liverpool players but I was very happy that we got a result and look like qualifying for UCL now. I also love my club and believe credit where it's due. The boys did pretty well defencively. That touch matip did to stop the cross reaching hoffenhiem forward. Brilliant. I think for once they earned some praise.


16.) 17 Aug 2017 08:44:34
Biggest thing with being at Barcelona is pretty much guaranteed ECL every year because of the league they are in.


 

 

07 Jul 2017 13:03:17
Lots of people are upset about our transfer activity so far this summer and I have to extend my sympathies to the Eds for what they have to put up with. I thought I’d try and read between the lines a bit to try and understand what's happened so far this season and what's going on now. This is, of course, complete guess work but it may help some understand why we haven’t finished our transfer activity yet.

Ahead of the this summer Klopp had a couple of main priorities, a second top class wide player and fixing the left back position. We needed a wide man because of an over-reliance on Mane and at LB, despite Milner doing a decent job, Klopp wanted more pace and a left foot there. CB was a concern but not the priority (hence Lovren’s new contract and the assurances that were given to Gomez early on) . Two things have changed since the early planning, the (apparent) availability of VVD and the potential need for CM if Coutinho or Can leave.

The wide man is easiest to deal with as Salah’s already here. Klopp wanted Brandt but Brandt wasn’t sure so we moved on to another target who wanted to come to us and who’s club were content to sell to us, this was completed in fairly good order. LB has been far more problematic. Kolasinac chose Arsenal, Mendy appears to have chosen City and Tierney is content where he is so none of the players Klopp wanted were available (Sessegnon was one for the future not the first team) . Klopp will go for Robertson if he has to but the fact that he’s not a Liverpool player yet suggests we’re exploring other options. If it gets to August and no other option has become available I expect Robertson to come in then.

The VVD saga has caused problems. I expect when Lovren signed his contract he was expecting to be first choice but this that changed when VVD expressed an interest in joining us. Lovren now knows that Klopp is not satisfied with him and I expect Klopp doesn’t want to rely on an unsettled CB, therefore, by circumstance, CB has become a priority. I understand there is still a hope that a deal with Saints can be made whilst Saints will be hoping they can sell to someone else but, if there are no other takers, they may be prepared to speak to Liverpool again. Therefore Liverpool are biding their time, they are looking at other options if VVD doesn’t come but they are hoping that they get another chance and are prepared to wait.

The CM story is different again. With the danger of Can not signing a contract or Coutinho leaving for mega-bucks it was prudent to start looking at replacements and Keita was identified as an option. My suspicion is that something has happened behind the scene and it is now expected that either Can or Coutinho will be elsewhere next season and Keita went from an option to a primary target. I doubt Liverpool will let Coutinho leave without a replacement being identified so that deal will depend on RBL agreeing to sell Keita (and may also explain their high asking price) or an alternative of similar quality becoming available. This saga will likely rumble on for the rest of the summer.

Oxlade-Chamberlain is separate to all this. I expect this is another unexpected opportunity. On paper O-C seems to be a good fit for Klopp and Klopp would be happy to bring in a player who can cover any position across the midfield. Right now the ball is with O-C and his agent, they are waiting to see who offers them the best deal, Arsenal, Liverpool or maybe someone else. With the player due back in training shortly I expect he’ll want to make a decision soon.

In summary I expect O-C to make a decision on his future shortly, Liverpool will look to bring in a LB to join pre-season as soon as possible with Robertson being the player they go for if no better option presents itself. Meanwhile Klopp is prepared to wait on VVD’s availability and Leipzig will hold out for as much of the Coutinho money as they can get.

PutneyRed

1.) 07 Jul 2017 13:09:26
I don't think Robertson will wait till August 31 to move clubs. Two clubs are taking to hull and a decision has to be made soon, not haggle around!
Keita and Coutinho are completely unrelated! The club and the manager will face riot from supporters if Coutinho is sold!


2.) 07 Jul 2017 13:51:20
I agree with if you know me. Coutinho is staying, I have no doubt.

I agree with Putneyred on VVD. Liverpool will wait to see if anyone else approaches and if not, I'd expect an offer and acceptance in late August.

As for left backs, I don't know what to expect.

I hope we get Keita, VVD and a proper LB because if we do, I genuinely believe we would have the squad to challenge on all fronts.

YNWA.


3.) 07 Jul 2017 14:02:05
What if coutinho wants to leave and tries to give it through, would the riot still go ahead. It tickles me that we moan if players want to go even if we don't want to sell, but if we want a player who the other club don't want to sell we want them to force the move! We will get deals done if a player and club are happy with the move and we pay the money required, simples😉.


4.) 07 Jul 2017 14:19:17
Don't worry Putney Red, the Eds don't do this at the point of a gun.

{Ed001's Note - it is mild torture I use to force them, no guns involved.}


5.) 07 Jul 2017 14:32:00
I find it highly unlikely that coutinho will be leaving. Not only have the club shown no sign that we would be willing to sell but more importantly phil himself has given no indication that he wants to leave. In fact he has gone the opposite way and not even sounded vague about it. Also the fact that Barcelona aren't interested is even better for us. There is no way he is leaving us for PSG before playing in champions league which he continues to say how excited he is for.


6.) 08 Jul 2017 00:26:18
I doubt Coutinho would leave for any club other than Barcelona. He definitely wouldn't go to another EPL club and it makes little sense for him to go to PSG, unless they offered him a crazy amount of money and he was money-hungry, but he doesn't seem to be like that. Mu gut feeling and reson tell me Coutinho is quite happy to stay with us for another season and reassess his options later. playing for a great club, under a great coach y now with the opportunity of CL, which is what he wanted. JK needs to continue to build a strong squad with the likes of the players we're being linked with (VVD, Keita etc) and our top players will have even less of a reason to leave. Plus LFC is a family and there will always be players that appreciate that and want to stay. Coutinho looks like that type of player in my opinion.


7.) 08 Jul 2017 20:33:16
Vvd is worth pushing for. Kieta isn't worth the money and our current midfielders are just as good if not better. Keep hearing people say he helped his team qualify for champions league, well so did lallana Hendo can wijnaldum and coutinio. In a much much tougher league. Kieta is not half the player pogba is and would cost almost as much. We would be ridiculed. He is not the player everyone here thinks he is.


 

 

03 Jul 2017 12:20:52
Hi eds, if RBL do decide to sell Keita are we the only club to have shown interest or are there others who may try and swoop in?

PutneyRed

{Ed002's Note - I understand from an Arsenal scout that the club were looking to make an offer to RBL for Naby Keita in the summer but the lack of Champions League football, the reluctance of RBL to sell and an outrageous asking price if the did decide to sell would likely cause a dent in that plan. He has been looked at by Arsenal on several occasions these past two seasons with interest also being shown by PSG, Chelsea and Dortmund. The prior interest of Bayern Munich waned with the "not for sale" flag and the potential asking price - they don't see the value. There has been interest shown by Liverpool but RBL have twice made it clear that there has been no approach to the club. They are aware that the player became unsettled when Liverpool to the step of using the press to unsettle their targets and they now know that Liverpool have directly approached and spoken to the player. You can expect an offer from Liverpool. Spurs were watching him at the end of the season but no mre. RBL would like him to stay and to extend his contract.}


1.) 03 Jul 2017 12:47:56
Are Liverpool not likely to be in very big trouble if we they have spoken to the player (yet again) without RBL's consent? Surely the only way of avoiding yet another complaint is to stump up the cash to buy him and avoid annoying RBL even more.


2.) 03 Jul 2017 13:04:51
By reading the words of the eds, a transfer seems highly unlikely unless we are prepared to pay a very steep price.

Do you think Liverpool will be willing to meet the potential asking price?

Thank you.


3.) 03 Jul 2017 12:52:08
Many thanks for the detailed response.


4.) 03 Jul 2017 12:57:34
So Eds, if we have spoke directly to Keita, then if they wanted to could follow the same stance as Southampton.

Our dealings are nothing short of shambolic at the minute!

{Ed002's Note - Clubs are under no obligation to sell.}


5.) 03 Jul 2017 13:44:59
From what i saw of this guy last year he was immense and can get even better with Klopps help. He does a bit of everything and is a future world star.

The price will be what he is worth and at will be between
50-60m into todays market as they don't need the money and we have a solid starting playing who gets beyond his man and moves a team forward with quick incisive thinking and passing, also pops in with a few goals rather than two fairly good players for 40m. I know who i would rather.


6.) 03 Jul 2017 13:54:27
Sorry Ed2 I mean with complaints etc and our approach being an illegal one. Surely any more complaints against us and we are in serious hot water.

We are going to make it really difficult for ourselves in the future if we keep acting like this in the market.

I don't understand why we briefed the press on our targets, as clubs will just stop dealing with us (i. e Fulham) . So we must pay the asking price for Keita and move on, knowing us though we will bid £50m and a chocolate bar hoping they will accept!

{Ed002's Note - The briefing was done in order to deliberately unsettle the players.}


7.) 03 Jul 2017 15:19:46
I dint see this obsession with kieta, he will cost a fortune and if we buy him I see it as a replacement for Coutinho, who is better. Makes no sense to me.

Baz.


8.) 03 Jul 2017 15:32:32
Not at all a replacement for coutinho.


9.) 03 Jul 2017 15:42:33
Apperently Keita is the best at packing. The most important pass in the modern game. I hope he signs.


10.) 03 Jul 2017 16:04:16
I will be distraught if we sign Kieta and then also give him the no.8 shirt! I don't think we should be kicking out Gini, Can, or Lallana for a player who is on the same level. We are completely sorted in CM and we're as strong as anyone in the league in that department.

Only way the deal makes sense is if Can leaves, or maybe we wait till Can leaves on a free next summer and then we can sign Kieta for £48m (release clause 2018)

feels like a pointless signing to me and hope it doesn't happen.


11.) 03 Jul 2017 16:06:51
Keita is nothing like Coutinho. Completely different types of players. Keita reminds me more of a younger Yaya Toure, but with a better work rate.


12.) 03 Jul 2017 16:22:50
Keita will sign. You don't kick up this much fuss if you're happy and settled.

£130K/ pw is the rumoured wage offer.

He'll sign, so will VVD.


13.) 03 Jul 2017 16:32:22
Indian Buzzer is really Louis Walsh!


14.) 03 Jul 2017 16:37:37
Bryant he is at a higher level than gini can and lallana imo already and he's only 22. I don't understand how you think our cm is the strongest in the league? And baz he's not the same as coutinho at all. If he keeps progressing at the rate he has been he could be one of the best cms in the world and for another 10 years too. 2nd most dribbles in bundesliga 6th most tackles 6th most interceptions 8 goals 8 assists. He does everything. At 22! I'm really excited 😂 I hope we get him 🙏🏻.


15.) 03 Jul 2017 16:39:41
Who said Keita was like Coutinho?

Keita is better in midfield than Lallana from what I have seen, and Salah is definitely a better forward than Coutinho.

In an ideal world, we sign Salah and keep Coutinho to replace Lallana in midfield. But if Coutinho leaves, we still need a better player in there than Lallana who just dithers on the ball too much.

Keita is not worth £70m but he is seemingly a very quick thinker who looks to break at the opposition. Something Lallana is terrible at doing, which constantly affects us when trying to break teams down.

Coutinho leaving is the only scenario for me where Keita goes into our starting line up. Not because they are the same, but as an indirect replacement in the starting XI. I still have doubts over the price, but I could ignore that if Keita was going to be a regular.


16.) 03 Jul 2017 17:53:52
Why do people assume a team would have their strongest 11 every week? "Why are we signing him when we have X, Y and Z in midfield already? " - because it's a squad. Look at the injuries to Henderson, Coutinho, Mane, Matip, Lallana. etc. You don't buy 11 great players and then average back ups. you buy strength in depth, which means when players are fit you have options.


17.) 03 Jul 2017 17:55:01
Redwillis, I have no doubt that he's a decent player but I think spending another £70m on our strongest area is daft. He got a few goals and assits but watching highlights he did get lucky enough times (will admit he scored a couple of good ones too) .

He is just a bit of an all rounder and erratic but he's not going to be a defensive destroyer type who will dominate in the tackle, and likewise he's not a world class passer or clever dribbler. He's not going to take Gini's place and suddenly make 3 times the difference.

For £70m we could get a player who'll score another 20+ goals, or a world class LB, CB, GK.

I'm sure we're not going to spend a couple of hundred million this summer and to me, spending so much in this area and potentially scarficiing going all out strengthen other areas seems wrong.

Just expressing my opionion. think this is going to a crazy transfer window!


18.) 03 Jul 2017 18:03:19
MK, you think Salah is better than Coutinho?

He hasn't even kicked a ball for us yet and suddenly he's better than our player of the year 2 years running and someone who routinely gets good numbers for goals and assists in the premier league!


19.) 03 Jul 2017 18:47:46
Puzzled you are really good at not reading things properly. Salah is a better forward. Not a better player. Coutinho is a midfielder who has still managed to be unbelievable playing out of position.

Salah is a more natural wide forward who will keep the width when it is needed, run in behind and attack the box. Coutinho always comes too deep to get involved in the play.

Nowhere have I or anyone said Salah is better than Coutinho. Coutinho is bordering on world class right now and Salah is just a great player. But Salah is a better forward purely because he is suited to the role and isn't a player out of position.

Seriously, why do some people just go looking for conflict and make themselves look petty and ridiculous?


20.) 03 Jul 2017 19:19:19
Bryant I don't understand what you have been watching. Keita has is world class in the final third. his weight of pass is perfect and what's more he has bags of energy defensively. he is leagues above gini and the rest of our midfield. Can takes forever on the ball and refuses to pass anywhere other than sideways. When people say we don't need to strengthen our midfield it baffles me. even more so when they clearly have never watched keita who WOULD transform our midfield.


21.) 03 Jul 2017 19:26:17
Sorry MK but I diasagree! I'm not misreading.

Salah is not a better forward than Countinho.

Who, like I say in my comment, got all those accolades playing AS A FORWARD, not in midfield.

Coutinho is arguably better in midfield, fine. But he's still better than Salah as a forward too. You're judging Salah of a good year in Serie A. We're all judging Couts off years playin as a forward.

Not looking for conflict with your bud, I just disagree.


22.) 03 Jul 2017 19:21:11
also seems people are judging Keita based on highlights which is worrying. Keita, salah and a left back and i will be delighted. if we can add a CB better than lovren then bonus.


23.) 03 Jul 2017 19:22:17
Puzzled, if you read the post from MK, he actually said that Salah is a better forward than Coutinho, I believe that Courtinho is a better midfielder than Salah, but that's what he said .


24.) 03 Jul 2017 20:24:13
Now you are making stuff up Puzzled.

Coutinho since signing for LFC has 34 goals in 138 premier league games.

Salah since moving to Italy has 35 goals in 81 appearances.

So not only has Salah proven over 3 seasons he can score goals, he has also outscored Coutinho who has not got near his minutes to goal ratio.

Playing as a forward ultimately is about putting the ball into the net. Salah is better at doing that. Whether he adapts to English football is another matter entirely though. Coutinho is the better player. I am not under any illusions regarding that matter, but Salah is a better forward.


25.) 03 Jul 2017 21:58:47
Salah has scored them goals in Italy. exactly! Not quite as competitive* as the BPL is it? Let's judge him when he's played them games in a red shirt.

{Ed007's Note - Yeah wait to see what he can do against footballing mega-powers like Huddersfield and Bournemouth before judging him. The worst Italian defender in Serie A would walk into half the teams in the 'competitive* BPL'}

*Pishy


26.) 03 Jul 2017 22:12:07
If we have turned the lads head then we ought to buy him. It's as simple as that! The only question being how much would they budge down from their asking price which looks unlikely!


27.) 03 Jul 2017 22:15:09
I'm not in anyway looking to condone or excuse Liverpool if they have actually spoken To the player himself without permission but it's surely a very grey area when a club is within its rights to enquire via his agent as to whether a player is interested in joining. The agent will obviously ask the player and then tell the club yes or no.

A club could be "talking" to a player through his agent without ever physically speaking to them yet this isn't tapping up?


28.) 03 Jul 2017 22:41:41
The same easy Italy where Coutinho couldn't get a game for a then mid table Inter Milan?

Ed007 is bang on. The quality of defending in Italy is miles better than England. If you combined every team in the Premier League you could probably just about string a back 4 together as good as Napoli have. You wouldn't get near the level Roma and Juventus have though. Roma just sold Rudiger who will walk into the team at Champions Chelsea, but was Roma's 4th best centre back.

The state of defending in this country is laughable.


29.) 04 Jul 2017 10:17:14
Just so we are clear by the way, Keita looks nothing like Yaya Toure unless his highlights and extended clips are completely deceptive.

They are both African midfielders to be fair, but what else do they have in common?

Keita looks like a really tricky midfield player. Agile, good turn of pace, excellent work rate, very direct, decent at the short quick one touch passing, knicks possession back high up the pitch very well, good vision in behind, and capable of the odd goal or assist. He looks very weak though, and he also seems to chase the ball a bit when sometimes he should hold his position.

Toure is all about power and composure. He takes the ball, shields it from oncomers and sprays it on to start dangerous attacks from deep. Occasionally he will embark on a powerful run but he bulldozes his way through. He is a set piece specialist and long range shooter. Keita looks more like the type to try and get into the box with a quick one-two and is a better finisher one on one with the keeper.

I'd be interested to see that Toure comparison explained because I don't see it remotely. First Kante and now Toure? that's a bit of a difference. Keita to me looks like a better version of Lallana. Bags of energy and technical skill, he just knows how to use it properly and is younger.

The Toure comparison seems lazy to me. How can a 5ft7 attacking midfielder be remotely similar to a 6ft4 playmaker? Not a criticism mate, I just want to hear your logic behind it. If you have seen Keita play live then you are definitely better placed than me to form an opinion than me.


30.) 04 Jul 2017 11:02:06
I have to agree with Bryant that we have the best midfield in the league. In an attacking sense. Defencively we could be stronger and I think that's why kieta is being looked at. I would rather take vvd if it were a choice between the two. Give us both and I will be extremely optimistic.


 

 

 

PutneyRed's banter posts with other poster's replies to PutneyRed's banter posts

 

21 Feb 2018 09:56:32
Hi Ed1 and the older posters. I want to expand on the thread below about the dying art of defending. I started following football in the latter half of the 90s so I can't comment from first hand about the game before the PL era but I've always had a theory I'd like to hear your opinion on.

Simply put, is defending not much harder today because the game is being played at a much higher standard today? The players are much fitter, faster and stronger and I believe the average PL player is light years ahead technically than the average first division player from the 80s.

Do the older posters agree that standards have increased and is this an explanation as to why defenders look so much worse than they did 20/ 30 years ago?

PutneyRed

1.) 21 Feb 2018 10:37:45
Game is quicker and players are much more protected than they used to be which makes defending harder. Players are scared to make a tackle in the attacking third. Also defenders are being set up to attack more in modern day football, back in the day you were a defender, stay solid and get rid.


2.) 21 Feb 2018 11:04:13
I disagree. The best forwards I've seen in the Premier league are Shearer, Henry, Drogba, Aguero and Torres. The best wide players I've seen are Ronaldo, Salah, Pires, Giggs and Robben. The best attacking midfielders I've seen are Gerrard, Lampard, Bergkamp, Silva and De Bruyne.

Of those 15 players, only 4 of them are playing in the league currently.

The reason why defences are no longer solid is because defending has become misunderstood. The game seems to highlight and reward the defenders who make lots of 50/ 50 challenges, last ditch recoveries and crunching tackles. It doesn't seem to reward players who funnel attackers out of play, make composed interceptions or gracefully nick the ball off the toes of an attacker. Defending now has to look spectacular to catch the eye.

Another key problem is tactics. Football used to be a game with 4 defenders, 2 midfielder and 4 attackers arranged in whatever way that particular wan chose. Be it a trio with a playmaker behind. 2 wingers and 2 strikers, or a main striker with a trio behind him. The game has changed though. Teams are now playing with 3 defenders and turning their full backs into wingers. Or in some cases playing with just 2 defenders, with full backs playing like wingers, and a midfielder with a good passing range dropping in between the centre backs. Full backs have become wing backs, centre backs have become midfielders, and everyone wants to play it out from the back. Even goal keepers are now playing as sweepers!

The biggest issue for me though, is a lack of leaders. Sometimes, you can forgive a player lacking in talent if he gets the best out of those around him. Keown, Carragher, Adams, Terry, Campbell, King etc. I can almost guarantee you now that those players would be playing in the Championship or for a lower Premier League side if they were coming through the system in the modern game. What they lacked in ability, they made up for in leadership, vocally and organisationally.

There are players like Lascelles (Newcastle), Mee (Burnley), Gibson (Middlesbrough), Morrison (Cardiff), Batth (Wolves) etc who are all fantastic leaders at the back, but probably won't ever get a chance to prove they can cope at a higher level because they are fairly average individually. Some of them probably wouldn't cope with a step up to be fair as not every player can step up to the next level successfully (football is not an exact science) but when was the last time a top Premier League team successfully gave the actual leader of a defence from a lesser side a chance, even though they weren't that highly rated?

I'll tell you when. Chelsea signed Gary Cahill from Bolton and won European cups and league titles with him in the side. So even though he's a pretty average individual, it's fair to say he has helped Chelsea to big things. Just before Gary Cahill there was also Phil Jones who whatever way you want to judge him, has won league titles, domestic cups and a European cup at United. Another average individual who displays good leadership qualities and has contributed hugely to United having the best defensive record in the league this season, and the second best in the Champions League.

Defending has died as an art, because modern football values the wrong attributes and modern tactics are turning defenders into midfielders. The quality of attackers has always been brilliant and the pitch and fitness argument is total rubbish. They all had to play on the same pitches with the same medical knowledge. Forwards may have got fitter and quicker, but so have defenders. Bobbles off bad pitches which favoured attackers, sometimes favoured defenders too. That is a soft excuse to be quite honest. The art of defending is just dying at the top level, quite frankly. At least it makes it more entertaining though!


3.) 21 Feb 2018 11:13:12
Forgot to add that diving, over complicated offside rules, and stricter refereeing has made defending slightly harder. Top players should be able to adapt to the times though. Defenders are also more protected now anyway. If a striker puts his arms on you to win a header it'll be a free kick to the defender, but that rarely goes both ways.


4.) 21 Feb 2018 11:14:43
my reply to both of you is show me a defender since the mid nighties or right through to now who could lace Maldini's or Franco's baresi's boots.
The art of defending is dead now and has been for a while.
go and watch a the ac milan team from the 80's or under capello and you will truly see what defending is all about
Im probably older then some on here but it makes me laugh when I read about the game and how it has improved etc
Nowadays there is a true lack of world class defenders about
I wonder how much the players I have mentioned would be worth in today's rates.
Ask yourself lads how much A Paul Mcgrath would have been worth or Des Walker.


5.) 21 Feb 2018 11:21:59
My response was sent before Mk Scouser posted so is not in reply to his post.


6.) 21 Feb 2018 11:34:46
Agreed Johncrow. I think defending hit a peak at around 2005 when there were players like Lahm, Thuram, Maldini, Nesta, Zambrotta, Cannavaro, Chiellini, Cafu, Terry, Carragher, Pepe, Carvalho, Ferdinand, Lucio, Samuel, Stam, Campbell, Toure, Ferreira, Cole, Neville, Puyol etc.

That generation had arguably the greatest pool of defenders to have lived, but i may be biased as i never saw any previous generations play live!

You look at the quality there was just 10-15 years ago though, compared to what there is now and the difference is horrific. In fact the only defenders in the modern game who would deserve to be on that list are Azpilicueta, Godin, and maybe Alderweireld in my opinion.


7.) 21 Feb 2018 11:50:15
Perhaps we only remember the greats and forget all deeply average defenders that played in the past.

I wonder if in ten years we'll talk about Kompany and Alderweireld and how the defenders of that time can't hold a candle to them.

Not trying to make a statement, just trying to promote discussion.


8.) 21 Feb 2018 11:51:05
Have to agree with you there MK it was a a great group of defenders which you have listed
I personally really rate Chellini but he is going a little down hill now but in his pomp there were few better for me in the last 6 - 7 years.


9.) 21 Feb 2018 12:18:08
MK - how on earth are you qualified to talk about the greatest era of defenders that ever lived when if memory serves right you're about 23 years old?

not knocking your age to be clear, but you've hardly been around long enough to make such a statement?


10.) 21 Feb 2018 12:28:45
This post has depressed me so much. John crow and mk. Completely agree with you and it's not from nostalgia either. It was a golden time for football, not just in premier league. I might add that it's the rest of the players which have dropped in quality and not just defenders. I hope someday I see a player with the same magic as zidane. I've seen messi and ronaldo at their best and they've done nothing to match that guy's incredible ability. Not to mention the real ronaldo. Small thing but international football was far more entertaining back then as well. I'm blaming FIFA 98 😉.


11.) 21 Feb 2018 12:35:08
As someone who grew up watching the legendary AC Milan team of the 90's, the art of defending is completely dead. Why? A defender is no longer rated for how well he can defend before actually defending as in, read the danger, anticipate a striker's runs, showing an ability to spot a pass and then defend when actually needed. They also had enough intelligence to adjust in-game to adapt to what the opponent is doing.

Now, a defender over-coached, is rated on how well he fits into systems, how much pace he may have and how well he can pass the ball out of the back, all of which have nothing to do with actually being able to defend. Paolo Maldini once said that he considered making a tackle as failure to do his job. What does that say? That is how they were coached in that era. Players like Nesta, Canavarro, Laurent Blanc etc., did not need pace nor even need to to run. They knew what you would do before you did it. That game intelligence is what is lacking, IMO. Also, It says that at that time, players of today who look good for running around making tackles would not even make it at academy level then cos well, they would be failing all the time.

It also means that if you are almost always in the right position, you won't even need to tackle. Defenders today are poor all round as they are badly coached and even those with game intelligence are coached NOT to use that intelligence and just do what is droned into them by their fake "Know it all" managers.


12.) 21 Feb 2018 12:28:58
I think you are all mistaken. If the art of defending was dead there would be a big increase in goals per game but there has been only an increase of around 4% since the start of the premier league.

Here are the goals per game and 5 year averages. You can see the goals dropped during the mid noughties and have increased again since.


Year Goals/ 5 yr
Game average
93-93 2.65
93-94 2.59
94-95 2.59
95-96 2.60
96-97 2.55 2.596
97-98 2.68 2.602
98-99 2.52 2.588
99-00 2.79 2.628
00-01 2.61 2.630
01-02 2.63 2.646
02-03 2.63 2.636
03-04 2.66 2.664
04-05 2.56 2.618
05-06 2.48 2.592
06-07 2.45 2.556
07-08 2.64 2.558
08-09 2.48 2.522
09-10 2.77 2.564
10-11 2.80 2.628
11-12 2.81 2.700
12-13 2.80 2.732
13-14 2.77 2.790
14-15 2.57 2.750
15-16 2.70 2.730
16-17 2.80 2.728
17-18 2.70 2.708.

{Ed001's Note - there are a hundred reasons that could be which are nothing to do with defending, such as a lesser quality of attacker or more defensively set out teams, such as Pulis, Allardyce, Mourinho etc. Just putting a bunch of stats down like that without context is just annoying and pointless. There is no conclusion to be drawn from these numbers by anyone who bothers to think about it.}


13.) 21 Feb 2018 12:48:41
Wow Brover seems like a little rant there lol but I agree with ya mate.


14.) 21 Feb 2018 12:53:02
aoe for me as good as messi is and Ronadlo is do any of them have the natural talent of Zindane?
if Zidane had the pace of say a salah would we be sitting here talking about one of the very very best of all time?
Take away the pace of Ronadlo and how good would he still be or take away the fact that every team messi has ever played in has been compeltely 100 percent based around him and giving him the ball at every opportunity no matter if it is the right choice or not.
for me neither of those two had the natural footballing talent of Ronaldinho or Ronaldo (buck tooth edition) or anywhere near the overall ability of Zidane.


15.) 21 Feb 2018 12:57:04
A simple look at the Ballon D'or shortlist really tells you all you need to know. Yes an attacker is always more likely to take it but how many non-attacking players have been in the top 3 in the last 7 or 8 years?

People value defenders now based on whether they can run with the ball, pick a 30 yard pass, bomb up all day and cross from deep. A defender who simply let's nothing pass them just isn't valued in the game right now. But things come in swings and roundabouts, one day it'll be back to the day of the dominant defender whilst striking talent is expected to support itself.


16.) 21 Feb 2018 13:12:46
Ed01 that there is no conclusion to be drawn from those goal stats is precisely the point I was trying to make.

If the art of defending was dead, there would be a significant change in goals scored since it died, unless you want to argue that the art of attacking died at the same time as well.

Stats can rarely be used to prove something did happen but often and easily be used to show there is no evidence in favour of a belief or assertion.

{Ed001's Note - no you weren't, you were using the stats to prove your point that the art of defending isn't dead. And you are still wittering on about it as if the numbers are in anyway relevant. I have already pointed out a number of things that can skew the stats to make them useless, but you are still trying to argue they are relevant. Pointless conversation as you are showing the reading comprehension of a brick wall. I am done bothering to reply to you, you clearly are not willing to take any notice.}


17.) 21 Feb 2018 13:21:36
So many things to take into account with defenders of today and of times gone. Attacking players of now are faster yes, but look at the quality of dalglish, best, ronaldhino, kluivert and so many more that not the fastest but amazing on the ball, also the diffrence in pitches, quality of them, just look at old games or even pictures you can see the conditions that made playing attacking football we see on a regular basis now impossible, difference in footballs, football boots and life styles are amazing.
Wouldn't be surprised if we put the best attackers around now in the same conditions same equipment from the 80s they would struggle to be as effective as they are now.
The game has changed in so many ways, more effort is put into fast pace attacks, defenders are part of building it up now more than ever, th backs are more extra wingers than full backs, how many fullback are there now that can both defend and attack? The style of play we see now is seeing less defenders being coached to defend, instead to be part of the attack. If a team defends they are called for parking the bus.

Just my own opinion long winded at that, I have no expert knowledge just what I have seen watching the game over the last 30 plus years. The games evolving and defending doesn't seem to be important part of it. So less quality coming through.


18.) 21 Feb 2018 13:32:08
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say in my humble opinion, zidane is the greatest player of all time. I've seen Maradonna and he's a close second. I'm sure quite a number would disagree but the lad did things with the football that still to this day are unmatched. He was the complete player. Messi and ronaldo aren't a patch on him.


19.) 21 Feb 2018 13:41:43
Very well said ED1.


20.) 21 Feb 2018 13:53:25
87red, there is such a thing as past footage. I had the video tape of Italia 90 for example, and I've watched at least 50 games between 70's to the 90's on LFC TV, YouTube etc.

I fully understand that this isn't a huge pool of footage to analyse though, hence why i said "but i may be biased as i never saw any previous generations play live! "

It doesn't mean I'm not qualified to have an opinion. You all happily read Ed001's legend profiles on people like Puskas who were well before his time. So is Ed001 no longer qualified to continue his legends series? Of course not. There is plenty of research techniques that can help you to gain an understanding of the past, without having been there. I probably know more about WW2 than my great grandma who was alive as it happened. Why? Research. History is never forgotten and it is easy to find footage of anything if you can be bothered. Your comment smacks of arrogance, quite frankly. As if being older makes your opinion more important. Maybe the Eds should put a 30+ age cap on the site seeing as all us younglings aren't qualified to have an opinion on football.

I fully understand that because i have lived the noughties, i may be slightly biased towards that era. I was caught up in the emotions of football in that time. That doesn't mean i can't tell you that Koeman, Moore, Hansen, Beckenbauer and co were fantastic players. I could even tell you their styles of play and career statistics, such is my interest in the history of the game. I just think the noughties had a very rich pool of defensive quality and from what I've read and watched of the past, no other era can quite match it. That is my opinion and you can disagree, but you habe no right to tell me it is less important because of my age, which you got wrong anyway.


21.) 21 Feb 2018 14:15:43
MK im sure he was joking mate as no one would be that silly to believe a comment like that
age has no relevance on knowledge or even better the thirst for knowledge
there are various ways to find out or research any player in football present or past
I for one alongside a few others find your postS really interesting and thought provoking so long may you continue.


22.) 21 Feb 2018 14:15:55
In fairness to mk, he is right in his comments so surely that qualifies him to have an opinion. The age barrier is a weak retort at best and it should never come down to age to ridicule someone's opinion. Criticise what they're saying instead of hammering them for who they are. Mk mate, you don't need to defend yourself on this one and I think brover absolutely nailed the answer.


23.) 21 Feb 2018 14:22:22
Did I really see MK saying Ledley King didn’t have the ability, but his leadership skills helped him?! You must have been struggling for a name to make up your ‘list’. King was brilliant who was unfortunate with injuries.

Not knocking your knowledge or opinion but being a quality defender includes those leadership skills, it’s not a special skill it’s a requirement.


24.) 21 Feb 2018 14:34:48
Very ignorant comment that 87red. I would understand it if MK had of made no sense in what he wrote but he did make sense didn't he? he probably knows them days better then you and he probably wasn't even born. Research is indeed key, this man is no daft, I think he's proved that enough to get some respect instead of arrogant comments.


25.) 21 Feb 2018 15:35:45
Can’t believe you’ve left fowler out mk, I’d say he was by far the best natural finisher we’ve had since the premier league started maybe not the most gifted but I’d have him and Suarez ahead of Torres.


26.) 21 Feb 2018 16:00:50
I never saw Fowler (first spell) live, Pegleg. I only started following football in 2004, and Liverpool in 2005. He was deadly enough in his second coming! I've watched a compilation of all of his goals and my word. Better than Suarez? God yeah.

JordDodz, sorry if i didn't make it clear enough! But i really rated Ledley King. I thought he was phenomenal. He was the closest to Ferdinand out of any of the other English centre backs, but sadly injury robbed him of what i think would have been a stellar career.


27.) 21 Feb 2018 16:09:09
I just had a look at my list of defenders from the 2005 time period and I'm frankly disgusted that i missed off Hyypia and Zanetti. There was just too many to not miss a couple. Particularly ashamed i forgot Zanetti though. He was a genius.


28.) 21 Feb 2018 16:11:25
pretty sure Salah is MK's sister account.

{Ed033's Note - no it isn't


29.) 21 Feb 2018 17:41:37
I was going to mention Big Sami 😡.
Can’t agree with Zidane over Diego.
Ask yourself if Zidane could have played in Diego’s era and vice-versa. Maradonna was a one off, a total freak. He did everything wrong once terms of lifestyle yet was still miles ahead of his time. Lots of respect for Zidane but he was not in Diego’s league.

I think defenders are less capable these days due to laws changing encouraging attacking tactics and the culture of coaches. The wheeel will turn again 🤝.


30.) 21 Feb 2018 19:05:07
Total agree about Sami Ron. I know, I know, maradonna was my idol growing up. What he did at Napoli was just incredible and obviously what he did for Argentina was legendary. Don't get me wrong, I think maradonna is close but for me, zidane changed football. And like maradonna he won the World Cup almost single handedly for France. In fairness they were better than Argentina but only barely and the competition was far better to 86. Diego was a total freak but zidane was an absolute genius. We'll never see the likes of either again sadly.


31.) 21 Feb 2018 20:19:41
AOE, I understand that Zidane is your idol BUT him changing football? Sorry, I disagree. Zidane was a great player BUT at the time at France 98, he had a poor tournament bar the final which he may not have even played cos he stamped on Fuad Amin of Saudi Arabia and got a straight red. W/ O him vs Paraguay in the round of 16, it took a fortunate goal in the last minute of extra time from Laurent Blanc to get past Chilavert and his team mates and even the French players admitted that they would not have survived the penalty shoot out cos Chilavert was a wall the whole game. Zidane had a great final vs a Brazilian team that was well beaten before the took the pitch due to Ronaldo's convulsion pre game.

Zidane was a great player again BUT to me, he did not change the game the was say a Ronaldo Luiz Nazario (O Phenomeno), George Weah (Berlusconi still raves about him till this day) or Marco Van Basten changed the CF position. Maradona is still miles ahead of him and frankly the ONLY player to revolutionize football, WELL ahead of his time was you guessed it, El Rey Pele.


32.) 21 Feb 2018 21:02:07
If it was purely based around dribbling, then I would say Maradona was the better player. But Zidane made his team play better so if I had to pick a team to win the big matches then I would go for Zidane before Maradona.


33.) 21 Feb 2018 21:10:05
In regard the main thread of the art of defending, I reckon Brover nailed it when he said its due to overcoaching. Defenders whilst needing to work within a system (because defending is definitely a team effort) need to be free to adapt to changes on the field. If they are scared of adapting then they are screwed. So all good defences need at least one organiser who can read the game. But too many players look like this has been trained out of them or scared of making a decision. Youth coaches need to have a look at themselves.


34.) 22 Feb 2018 04:04:56
Here in Australia, there is very little emphasis placed on coaching how to defend at a junior level. Time needs to be devoted to all areas of defending. 1v1, central areas, wide areas, transition areas, high and deep areas. The key is getting the youth to understand why they are doing what they do. The earlier they understand, the easier it is for them to anticipate situations. Patience in coaching and patience on the field when defending are important early on I think. This may not be the same around the world, but it certainly exists here, and I believe is a big issue.


35.) 22 Feb 2018 07:47:01
87red,

Arguably one of the silliest digs or comment I have seen on here or any other forum in my near on 40 years.

You are just having a sly dig at the guy, get a life mate, or at least explain your comment instead of it just being left dead at "how on earth are you qualified to talk about the greatest era of defenders that ever lived when if memory serves right you're about 23 years old".

Idiotic!


36.) 23 Feb 2018 11:00:48
@preso I agree mate. i've coached in Oz for a long time now and have to agree that the art of defending is neglected. Either because coaches are unsure on how to teach it, or because they concentrate too much on winning (which oddly enough can hinder developing defensive skills) or because the FFA do not provide enough assistance on helping coaches develop the skills of teaching it. Most of my training plans on defensive skills, I had to develop myself.


 

 

05 Feb 2018 10:09:27
I was always a Migs apologist, I didn't think he was as bad as everyone made out and I didn't think our alternatives would be an improvement. However, Karius had come in and, at the very least he's been fine and possibly he's improved us. I certainly don't think he's the answer yet but I'm interested to see what he can show us between now and May.

Yesterday I was astonished at what Redknapp said in the commentary though. Whilst Karius maybe should have caught it to say that punch was terrible was ridiculous. It was confident and the ball was cleared a long way from goal. Any criticism was the result of a stunning strike by Wanyama, nothing would have been said if it wasn't for that.

This is definitely a situation where Karius had been unfairly criticised.

PutneyRed

1.) 05 Feb 2018 10:16:53
Agree with that PR. It was a good punch which cleared a long way out. Typical Redknapp. Spuds spuds spuds. blah blah. Give credit where it’s due rather than looking for blame. It was travelling at speed and a good goal. Not as good as Susos tho hey ed1 😜.


2.) 05 Feb 2018 10:34:42
The problem is that it wasn't exactly a thunderbolt of a cross and he kind of fell into the cross, a little quicker foot movement and he could of took it mid rift, jmo.


3.) 05 Feb 2018 10:49:37
Spot on, Putney. The issue is that and Ed01 has alluded to this, GK's are no longer drilled to catch balls in those situations anymore. This is in fact the case now. Karius yes, may have caught it BUT he does not know who may be around him so he gets a good fist on it and punches it 25 to 30 yards away. To me, that is job done. If Wayanma scores a goal that NO GK can save, how is that Karius' fault? Those Sky Sports hacks have it out for this kid, IMO.

Karius has always been more talented than Migs and light year ahead of him, really. He just needed to focus on his job and get chances to shine and improve. We'll see if he's the answer as you say. As for the TV hacks, I stopped listening to them esp. the Sky ones (Carra the worst, IMO) cos they seem to have already agreed before the show that Karius would make mistakes and the knives were already sharpened. Well to their demise, he was more than solid with a pen save to boot BUT they got to criticize something so there you are.


4.) 05 Feb 2018 14:03:48
Personally I think he could probably have caught the ball, but notwithstanding that, the midfield should have picked up the second, ball, only it just goes to show that there is a massive black hole in our midfield. Karius did have a good game overall.


5.) 05 Feb 2018 17:58:39
If we are going to place some blame It has to be the ox whilst it was a wonderstrike he should of been tracked by chambo enough that the ball was either disposessed, blocked or even just put under pressure.


6.) 05 Feb 2018 18:30:05
He was back on his feet when Wanyama hit it. No'one would have saved that.


 

 

29 Jan 2018 22:05:23
My man crush has finally left 😢

If there was ever a player I've wanted to succeed at this club it was Studge. There was something about him, the lad with all the talent in the world who hadn't quite managed to make it at City and Chelsea but found his home at Liverpool. He was brilliant in his first 18 months, managing to make the incredible seem nonchalant and scoring at a rate that would make our legends jealous.

Even over the last three and a half seasons he's still reminded us of his ability, just a taster here or there, as if he was saying 'i still got it, I can still be amazing for this club'.

I knew he was never a great fit for Klopp, that he could never deliver the tempo that Klopp demanded, but I thought he could be that elusive plan b that we so sorely lack but every injury set back made it more likely that it wasn't going to be.

Goodbye Studge and thanks for the memories. In another universe somewhere you're a Liverpool legend but sadly it's a different story in this one. I hope you find your rythm at West Brom, I hope you find your consistency, I hope I get to see you at your best again.

PutneyRed

1.) 29 Jan 2018 22:15:06
He is going home mate, isn't he from Birmingham .


2.) 29 Jan 2018 22:23:15
Gone on loan, id love to see him do really well and then return for us and be a beast, I have my doubts mind but it's a nice thought, respect to him, on his day he's top quality. Hope he can be the player he once was, good luck to him.


3.) 29 Jan 2018 22:30:51
Just didn't fit klopps heavy metal football more like 80s disco.


4.) 29 Jan 2018 23:12:59
That goal in the europa league final 👍.


5.) 30 Jan 2018 04:31:09
special goals vs everton, villa, and ironically vs west brom, for the price we paid danny boy did great, sadly injuries took there toll, he was also a credit to the club off the pitch and has never had a bad word to say about the club, now what do I do with my number 15 sturridge top?


 

 

29 Jan 2018 12:29:56
It’s natural to be disappointed about Saturday’s result, the FA Cup was our best chance of silverware this season, we were at home, we played almost the strongest team we could have and we lost against a team that’s struggling. There’s been a lot of blame placed, Klopp, the owners, the defence, the midfield, Mignolet and the truth is that a whole bunch of factors combined that resulted in us crashing out of the cup.

What’s really disappointing is the high hopes we had for the season, not just back in August but just 10 days ago, we really thought that Klopp’s plan was coming together. Klopp came into the 15/ 16 season after it started, that season was about consolidation and adaption to his philosophy. 16/ 17 was Klopp’s first full season, it was about progress, about his shaping his squad, both in personnel and application. 17/ 18 was when the team was really supposed to kick on, the title was a hope rather than a target but we wanted to be competing and if Klopp could get a piece of silverware then that would have been brilliant.

Just 10 days ago we considered ourselves the second best team in the country and maybe much closer to City than the league table suggested. Today we’re out of our second domestic cup and we have a precarious hold on the top four, things change really fast in football.

What’s gone wrong? Well the good news is its quite clear. The biggest problem is our midfield but the truth is that we’re playing second stringers at the moment. Can and Wijnaldum are not, and I don’t think ever where, supposed to be regular starters and AOC is a project that wasn’t meant to be a leading player this year. This season Klopp wanted Henderson, Coutinho and Lallana as his midfield, a brilliant combination of discipline, creativity and tenacity. Sadly Henderson and Lallana have struggled with injuries and Coutinho left, any team would have problems if it lost its first choice midfield.

There is still plenty to fight for this season, Henderson and Lallana will hopefully return to the forefront, we’re in a battle for the top four but it’s a battle we can win and I’m looking forward to some epic nights of European football. I don’t want to talk about winning the Champion’s League, we’re not amongst the favourites and it would be as extraordinary as 2005 if we did win, but there isn’t a single match I’m scared of. Klopp’s brand of football is built for this stage, Messi, Neymar and Ronaldo will not have experienced anything like the pressure we’ll put them under and Anfield will once again be the greatest stage in Europe. We’ll take each match as it comes and enjoy the ride because it’s going to be great, and if we’re still involved come May then that’s just a bonus.

I get why people are upset, I get why the lack of midfield reinforcements seems like an oversight on the clubs part, but we’ve been here before. After the Spurs game things looked bad, I was one of the ones openly questioning Klopp but I learnt a lesson then, we are moving forward but we’ll face bumps along the route, we have to ride those out. Don’t get down, don’t give up, because our team won’t. There are no guarantees in football but it’s about giving yourself the best possible chance of succeeding and that’s what we’re currently doing, keep the faith.

PutneyRed

1.) 29 Jan 2018 12:41:52
Very good post that mate.


2.) 29 Jan 2018 13:04:06
Although I agree with some of the general sentiments, I have to disagree on some of the player assessments. Can was inherited so it's slightly different but Chamberlin and Wiji were the marquee midfielder signings of their summers and really of Klopps reign. If you disregard them as players never (or not immediately) meant to be in a regular starting XI, that would mean that in nearly 3 years Klopp has chosen not to buy a single starting midfielder. Sadly I think we just have to accept that Wiji isn't as good or useful as Klopp hoped and has his early promise showed, and Chamberlin is better than we feared but is letting himself down slightly with what looks to me like over-eagerness to be the hero. However, I still firmly believe these players have more to give then they have done over the past 10 days (they've proved it many times) and Klopp either needs to get them proving it or justify why players like Grujic are going out on loan and Woodburn isn't even getting onto the bench because whether they are ready or its too soon or whatever, they will not be doing worse than the ones that played the last two games have done. Maybe not better, but certainly not worse.


3.) 29 Jan 2018 12:41:52
Very good post that mate.


4.) 29 Jan 2018 13:06:40
Great post, hope you typed that on a laptop/ pc rather then a phone 😀.


5.) 29 Jan 2018 13:13:11
Putney, I may have missed it BUT the owners don't play neither are they responsible for the lack of drive and desire shown by the team in general so why you are including them in your otherwise fair/ solid assessment of the situation, is beyond me. Care to explain?


6.) 29 Jan 2018 14:01:20
Lack of drive and desire? What match were you watching?
Is this the stage where you start slagging the team instead of individual players?


7.) 29 Jan 2018 14:07:56
Out of all the midfielders we have, they are all attacking . Only hendo and can I’d consider as central midfielders, and they are both too similar to play together

I’d only be playing 3 of Llalana, aoc, winji, Bobby, mane and salah

To me on Saturday we lined up with a 4-1-5 :-/


Kieta will help sure, but we still need a mascherano figure and a striker infront of the attacking midfielders otherwise we will carry on conceding and passing teams to death without scoring.


8.) 29 Jan 2018 14:30:57
good post Putney, but, Klopp picked wrong Keeper and wrong full backs,
what I can't believe is that when Klopp took over, we were conceding way too many goals, and many were placed on the heads of Migs and Moreno,
after getting beat by Swansea, he decided to play both these players, you could almost predict that we would be letting in a couple of goals, but three goals conceded into the Kop goal was a game killer,
what does this mean, well, no silverware is what,
yes, good to read that we have some big Champions League games to come,
but, to be honest, without a decent Keeper, and a couple of dodgy and injured defenders, how far will we go,
and just to finish, Klopp will get some backlash if we finish this season badly .


9.) 29 Jan 2018 14:40:23
Ultimately we lack the ability to adapt to situations within a game. I had hoped that the hard fought wins against Leicester and Burnley were an indication of increased maturity but it seems like there's some way to go. Whilst many may say that it is down to player mentality, some has to be down to the recruitment and some down to the coaching. It's a shame we can't transplant the attitude of Henderson and Lallana into Emre and Gini. Instead for various reasons it looks like we need to replace all four of them. Keita being the first step.


10.) 29 Jan 2018 15:05:42
"Plenty to fight for this season"? I think against better sides than Porto we will likely get dumped out the Champions League and since there is now a blueprint on how to play us, pretty much everyone is going to try that. If you stop Mane, Salah and Firmino, you stop us and since we can't defend or keep a lead then we are a soft touch. Can easily see this season fizzling out with an early champions league exit and a finish well outside of the top four. Last season we were able to stiffen the midfield and defence with Lucas Leiva, but we don't have the luxury of a player with his intelligence or defensive nous.


11.) 29 Jan 2018 16:04:47
Enjoyed your post Putney, nice one mate.


 

 

23 Jan 2018 12:15:59
The biggest thing to say about last night was that it wasn’t a disaster, 9 times out of 10 we’d have got a draw out of that game and 7 out of 10 we would have won. Swansea had a well laid out plan that gave them the best chance to take points off of us and the cards fell very kindly for them. Swansea desereva lot of credit, they were calm, patient and their players followed the plan to the letter.



Whilst I’m not too upset about one result it does raise questions. Klopp has done a lot to dampen the Liverpool cliché this season, the one where we’re superb in open games but struggle against conservative and determined defences, but the last eight days belong to last year’s Liverpool and if we reverting to type then the next four months will be harder than we anticipate.



People continue to compare our work rate when we play well to when we play badly as if it’s an application problem which causes our bad results. This isn’t true, Liverpool worked just as hard last night as they did against City, the difference is what that hard work brings. Against City when we closed down the ball in their half the City players didn’t have options to release the ball because most of the team was ahead of the ball. This allowed us to steal the ball, overload the remaining defenders and score. Against Swansea this wasn’t the case, there was always someone in space behind the ball to receive it and Liverpool couldn’t unsettle them. This is the fundamental reason why are tactics work better against better opposition, they play in to our hands.



A big criticism I’ve read is that our play was slow but I disagree, we were trying to be patient and that’s what these games need. When there’s no space for our speedsters to exploit we’ve got to be cleverer with the ball, we’ve got to pull the defenders out of position and exploit the gaps we create and that’s where the Coutinho problem rears it’s head. We need the string puller, the guy who runs the show and can find those gaps, we don’t have one at the club right now. That game showed Can and Wiji’s limitations as players, they’re workhorses not artists. AOC is better but his game is more about his own movement than the ball’s, we’re missing something from our armoury and if we don’t get it this month I can’t see the second half of the season going as well as hoped.



As a final thought I want to praise VVD, yes it was his mistake that led to Swansea’s goal but beyond that I thought he was excellent. I want to compare him to Sakho, the last defender we had who looked like he relished defending. Physically and technically I think they’re similar players (although VVD is a far, far better header of the ball) but the difference was Sakho always looked on the edge of control, like he was scared of what the ball was about to do. VVD is the opposite, he is so, so calm. I expect this is where his reputation for not trying comes from but from my perspective I think this is just the attitude of a man who is confident and in control. Add in the fact that he seems to relish responsibility and I’m starting to see why he was so highly rated by parts of the media. What really excites me is that there’s a resemblance to Hyppia in how he carries himself and, as far as I’m concerned, there is no greater compliment a defender can receive.

PutneyRed

1.) 23 Jan 2018 12:56:12
Good post.


2.) 23 Jan 2018 14:24:41
thing that surprised me about yesterday was the lack of energy in the team, considering that they had much longer to rest for it than our last 10+ games.


3.) 23 Jan 2018 14:38:21
good post Putney, but playing TAA and not Wini, would have given us more width on the right side, and Robbo playing more forward passes, more so in the 1st half, would have put us on the front foot more often .


4.) 23 Jan 2018 14:32:18
City plays open football while Swansea let us have the ball. There is a big difference. You don’t need to press a team who doesn’t want to keep the ball. Here comes the intelligent part of the game. City always give their opposition space to run behind, something we used at will.

Swansea just sat back and made it a China wall and we tried penetrating it through the middle from 1st min to 90th min. Klopp was hoping for someone to perform magic rather than alternating the team to suit the play!

There are ways to break the parked bus, but you need to work on it. Not just sit back and expect one player to score from 30 yards!


5.) 23 Jan 2018 14:36:06
Putney, this is the best summation I've read since last night's hysteria.


 

 

 

PutneyRed's rumour replies

 

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19 Feb 2018 13:24:02
That's interesting but it suggests we'll be bidding for a back up striker in the summer. I wonder who's on the short list.

PutneyRed

 

 

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13 Feb 2018 20:04:20
MK, couldn't disagree more, Eriksen is exactly what we're missing and would take us to the next level. Alli's the one who's overrated, he wouldn't get near our team. Dembele would be fine but we don't need him.

PutneyRed

 

 

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13 Feb 2018 12:33:30
I think there was interest before he went to spurs. I'd take him in a heartbeat but it would be an odd career choice for him, we're hardly a step up from Spurs right now. Maybe he'd come in a year or two if our upwards trend continues.

PutneyRed

 

 

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05 Feb 2018 09:59:17
WYred, there's a difference between winning trophies and achieving targets. Both Wigan and Swansea have won major trophies since our last one but clearly they're not better teams than us. So we need a better way of measuring how well we're currently doing and that's the league.

Goals scored is a great measure of our attack, goals conceded of our defence and points of our general standing. If these records are going up or down season by season then that's measure of our progress.

Being in the top four isn't success in itself but it's a target that's shows we're improving. From 2010-16 we made the top four once, hopefully we going to do it for the second time in a row this season, that's progress.

If we start to come top four regularly then we can increase our targets to 'challenge for the title' and if we challenge for the title regularly we can increase our target to 'win the league'. That's the aim but it's a journey.

Saying we're unsuccessful because we didn't win the league is unhelpful as it wasn't a realistic target for us this season. Having a target of 'top four' and achieving that target shows we're on the right track.

PutneyRed

 

 

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19 Jan 2018 04:57:08
I'd love it if we got him, not only has he got magic in his toes but how satisfying would it be if we could succeed where Utd failed.

PutneyRed

{Ed001's Note - he has lightning fast feet but the brain of a dead snail running them. Great at a crap club, as everyone can just stand back and let him run forward and stay out of the way. Put him in a club where there is anyone else getting forward and he just gets in the way. He is not a particularly good player.}


 

 

 

PutneyRed's banter replies

 

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23 Feb 2018 10:34:29
This is just a wish fulfillment exercise to have a dig at Utd and Mourinho. The only thing that counts is that they are, currently, doing better than us. We can make all the excuses we want (transfer spending, DDG etc) but we're behind them.

The good news is that it's within our power to change that in the next month or so.

PutneyRed

 

 

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22 Feb 2018 11:12:26
Senior attack with reserve defence Vs reserve attack with senior defence. That's how we made it fair when our school A and B teams played.

PutneyRed

 

 

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22 Feb 2018 11:10:03
Navas would only come to us is we told him he was number 1.

PutneyRed

 

 

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21 Feb 2018 11:50:15
Perhaps we only remember the greats and forget all deeply average defenders that played in the past.

I wonder if in ten years we'll talk about Kompany and Alderweireld and how the defenders of that time can't hold a candle to them.

Not trying to make a statement, just trying to promote discussion.

PutneyRed

 

 

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21 Feb 2018 09:41:50
I think there are 10 teams who are all looking at the CL and thinking they have a shot. The PL teams, real, Barca, Juve, PSG and Bayern.

I don't believe we should expect to lose to any of them. What we would need is to play our best in three more ties plus have the rub of the green at some point (I think most winners enjoy a bit of fortune on their way) .

It's certainly achievable but I'm going to save getting excited till the semis at least.

PutneyRed