10 Apr 2023 00:48:51
Ed001, I want to ask what you thought of Trent's second half performance against Arsenal. It was almost bizarre. It was like he was playing cm and rb. At times it was almost like we had no rb. Defensively it looked dodgy but I can't help but think if we had say Gomez at rb and Trent pretty much doing the same thing he would have been absolutely sensational.

Your opinion is outstanding. Always on the mark and time almost always proves you right. It's a bit annoying actually?

I do think with what we have left, that now is the best time to have a look at Trent in midfield. Until this game, I had my doubts but now I think it needs to be checked. He could be something really special in midfield. I at least want to see it and we can revert next season if it doesn't work out. What do you think? Would you give him a few games there to have a look at least?

{Ed001's Note - unfortunately I still don't have proper internet here so can't watch anything as all I have is mobile data and it is horrible. It constantly drops. Just trying to edit the almost blank pages we use for the sites can be a real problem for it at times. Hopefully it will be sorted this week as they have finally fitted the cables into the building but sometimes they can be so slow here. They seem to work on their own time. They will be there in 30min can mean any time within the next week. Or two. Mybe three.

As for Trent in midfield, it really depends on what system Klopp intends to use in the future. If he is sticking with no cover in behind the right-back when he goes forward, then yes now is the right time to give Trent a run in midfield and next season we will have Gomez, Ramsay and Bradley to allow him to stay there if it is successful. But if we are going to go back to what made us successful under Klopp, then it would be a waste of time trying him in midfield, as he is absolutely perfect for the right-back role in that set-up.

Personally I am not a fan of playing these complicated tactical systems where players switch from inside to outside any more than they have to or as a natural part of the play. They will work on occasion, but more often than not they overcomplicate something that can be done simply and not lead to moments of confusion. The less your players have to think about how they play the system, the more spare capacity they have left over to deal with changing game situations.

Like when we played Citeh and everyone is complaining Trent showed Grealish inside onto his stronger foot. That was clearly a tactical instruction to push Grealish into traffic, no defender shows a player onto their own weaker foot otherwise, they always want to put them on their own strong side. If the set-up was simple, it makes it easier for Trent to just realise it isn't working and show Grealish on the outside instead. These players are becoming like Pep's robots and unable to react to the changes going on around them because the instructions are so detailed and complicated they are concentrated on following them. That is what costs Guardiola's teams when he makes his changes for the big games. The players are so robotic that they can't just adapt for one match.

One of our strengths under Klopp early on was that he kept it simple and the players were able to adjust on the fly and deal with things. Now the games and footage I have seen they look to be stuck in a gameplan and struggle to adapt to what goes on. A lack of confidence is not helping, you will see players checking the ball more often when they are on it or taking that extra touch they didn't need to make sure before playing a pass. But that is also coming from having to think about what they are doing because of the complicated tactical instructions, rather than just doing.

It is why a martial artist will repeatedly practice a kick or punch over and over. It is not just to learn the technique, but to make it instinctive rather than having to think about it. That only saves milliseconds, but it makes a huge difference at the top end of any sport. Instinct makes the difference between realising a player is going to make a run and shifting position to cover it before he does and having to wait until he makes the run and getting caught chasing the play. We are no longer playing with freedom and the players are no longer sure of their roles. Our training isn't the incessant drilling of the same things over and over to allow them to just do, as Citeh can. Our training has not adjusted to the tactical changes to be honest. Decisions need to be made, tactics decided on and then training needs to designed around getting the players to play those tactics. Otherwise things are not going to get back to the level we were at, no matter what way we go.

Sorry got a bit carried away there.}

1.) 10 Apr 2023
10 Apr 2023 04:29:13
The tactics for Arnold to push inside the midfield and konate covering the rb was madness. Coz everyone is on Arnold for not covering his rb position and clearly he was instructed to play in midfield. This exposed our cb as they were dragged out of their position. And when Arnold went to byline as usual, he created the equaliser. Why overcomplicate things, just let him overlap salah done and let a midfielder cover him. And Robertson keep on going inside Gakpo and Nunez which didn't make us stretch arsenal's defence and no one to cross the ball. Atleast the team showed a fight yesterday after a long time. I hope klopp goes to simple basic attacking game play, no need to overcomplicate the tactics.

2.) 10 Apr 2023
10 Apr 2023 07:26:24
It’s not exactly madness is it it’s odd, but everyone praises Pep, Arteta for it when Zinchenko and Stones step into midfield they do the same thing. It worked more in the second half when the team actually has done drive it could become a very useful thing.

3.) 10 Apr 2023
10 Apr 2023 07:29:30
I’m not usually fond of the fullbacks coming inside id like them wider and the 6 dropping in to make a back 3 but the way Pep sets up city in a 3241 looks really good not sure if we have the players to do similar though.

4.) 10 Apr 2023
10 Apr 2023 08:01:33
I agree with davey, try him now in midfield, his play with the ball yesterday was sensational. see what he is like without having to think about going 1 to 1 with a very tricky winger. Try it now as we haven't pile to lose, we not in running for any trophies or top 4 realistically so if it doesn't work so be it. previous seasons we always in running for something and u would be afraid to change in case it messed things up. His passing and final ball is on a par with de bruyne.

5.) 10 Apr 2023
10 Apr 2023 08:06:03
Loppers, It worked more in the 2nd half because we were way more offensive, had Arsenal pinned back and apart from the odd breakaway.
We looked awful (as did Trent) in those first 35 minutes when we tried patiently to play the ball out from the back, we are way too slow and waiting for good teams to pick us off.
Arsenal got lucky in the second half that a plethora of missed chances from Salah, Darwin and big Konate ?, didn’t have The Gunners walk away with their tail between their legs.
We have players that are excellent giving accurate long balls . We need to use it more often.

6.) 10 Apr 2023
10 Apr 2023 08:25:01
I think we should trial him in midfield from now until the summer. The argument not to move him was always "don't fix what isn't broken" and i personally even used that argument on occasions. Well, now it's shattered into tiny pieces that argument is paper thin at best!

7.) 10 Apr 2023
10 Apr 2023 09:01:59
Try him in midfield, he could play the Hendo role no problem imo. Could save us £150 mil on Bellingham to spend on a world class dm and Cb. No brainer to me.

8.) 10 Apr 2023
10 Apr 2023 09:20:05
By all means try Trent in midfield, but either play 3 CH’s, or someone else at RB.
I hate the inverted full back and i’m not sure it even works for City and/ or Arsenal. Clogs up the midfield and leaves you wide open to good teams hitting you on the counter.
And why are we trying to copy other teams? . Why can’t we just do what we do at our highest level possible?

9.) 10 Apr 2023
10 Apr 2023 09:27:30
Could not agree more Ed.

I think because perhaps our newer players are not as good pressers as our original three, klopp is trying to compensate by getting added numbers in certain positions at the cost of other positions. It's that cost that's costing us (great sentence. )

I believe we have the same issue as RB on the other side with robbo. Everybody is being asked too much right now.

The advantages of Gomez at right back I think would be that it would help both sides. He errs on the side of defence so when attacking we could push a little bit to a 3 at the back to cover more backend field. Obviously a bit more fluid as the game plays but that's the rough idea.

I think our original tactics are difficult with this personal due to aging midfield and top end not as good at pressing. I think I'd change it now personally for a little more structure.

10.) 10 Apr 2023
10 Apr 2023 09:53:11
Over instructing your players, not accepting that a game has some degree of chaos to it is a common mistake among top managers. Old Milan under Sacchi could take away chaos and make things 100% predictable by positioning and press, Mourinho at his Prime too, Pep's teams try to do it by possession and press.

For me Klopp teams, both us and BVB, embraced chaos, steered it to certain situations and areas and fed of it, but he has fallen into the trap of trying to control things too much of late.

It hurts to admit, but old red nose never fell into this trap and always respected the chaos element of things. Wish Kloppo got back to his old ways going forward, in some aspects.

11.) 10 Apr 2023
10 Apr 2023 10:03:50
I think if we could spend on a top RB and get Trent in midfield moving forward it could revitalise him and us. Just that Klopp would have to admit he may have been wrong when previously asked.

12.) 10 Apr 2023
10 Apr 2023 10:06:36
“The goals have to come down one side, ” said Trent Alexander-Arnold when asked about his role in Arsenal’s second goal. “That’s how football works. ” Now, that might satisfy him – elite sportspeople often have a preternatural self-belief that allows them to execute difficult skills under pressure – but the rest of us are seeing a player out of his depth defensively now he no longer has the protection of a midfield able to ensure the ball spends most of its time down the other end. Just as we saw his fallibility against Arsenal, we also saw his brilliance – stepping into midfield, dictating attacks and creating his team’s equaliser. It may be time he moved into the centre permanently, partly because Liverpool have a vacancy there, but mainly because the position is ideal for hiding his weaknesses – a lack of nous, recovery pace and one-on-one ability – and accentuating the passing, vision, and crossing that are his strengths.

13.) 10 Apr 2023
10 Apr 2023 10:39:52
Another problem with this tweak is that Robertson still bombs on as well. I think Robertson is playing with his heart more than his head a lot. The thing with the linesman was embarrassing for him as well as the linesman.

14.) 10 Apr 2023
10 Apr 2023 08:13:09
Great analysis as ever ed001. Whereabouts in the world are you these days?

{Ed001's Note - Philippines mate. They work on their own time here. When someone says they will be there in 30min, it can mean anything from 30 hours to a week. Sometimes more.}

15.) 10 Apr 2023
10 Apr 2023 11:30:54
Great discussion here and I thank Ed01 for chiming in. The thing for me is that we are over-complicating things a bit too much, as some have said. Klopp football is a simple fundamental concept of pressing high and winning the ball back in a bid to launch an attack wile the oppo. is out of sorts. All the other bells and whistles Klopp has added mmade us tough to deal with from there on. I don't understand the "inverted FB" stuff cos even tho it looked good last night, that does not mean it should be implemented long term.

Guardiola is a galaxy brain who is able to think of such things cos he thing-ks he is smarter than everybody else and has the funds to bring players in to fit said glaxay-brained schemes (or farts) . We cannot do that cos we don't have the players to accommodate such a venture nor the infinite funds to gamble on such things, IMO. Hence, I think Trent should just play the RB role (with tweaks for sure) and get the personel in to cover for when he drives forward to orchestrate and go from there. Konate is already a great start on this front.

16.) 10 Apr 2023
10 Apr 2023 11:45:08
I can't see the logic of this new position. The old system where Trent and Robertson were getting ridiculous assists was not broken nor were teams figuring us out. Trent was one of the top right backs in world football because of the attributes which make people want him in midfield. It's what set him apart from other right backs. Those fast raking balls to the opposite flank were so difficult for teams to cope with. Now he's being instructed to come inside and it's not instinctive to him. Such a waste.

Other managers do get praised for these "innovative" changes as MK said. But for every Zinchenko or Stones there's whatever Pep did in the Champions league final against Chelsea. Are we just trying to be clever for clevers sake? I hope we get back to playing to Trent's strengths.

17.) 10 Apr 2023
10 Apr 2023 12:06:37
I know what you mean Oli, I think we used to turn city over and Peo used to be so afraid of our attack because we used to turn up and play a structured but full throttle simple game plan, to win the ball back high up the pitch and attack out of them, while his players were all trying to play 8 different positions each.
With regards to ed1’s comments I think he’s bang on. Their second goal yesterday you could see the gaping hole in the middle of defence where Konate went out wide to cover (although never got anywhere near blocking the cross at source) and VVD just looked lost in the middle, not knowing whether to cover the front post or stay in the middle etc. once we lose the ball the whole right side of defence just turns into a shambles. It used to be Hendo dropping in to cover which presumably left the centre backs in their own zones, but the centre backs getting pulled here there and everywhere is painfully, plainly not working for us.

18.) 10 Apr 2023
10 Apr 2023 12:38:36
not blowing my own trumpet but i have sent in several post going back a few seasons saying that trent would be better as a number 10 he sees a pass he can pass he has a shot on him and it takes the pressure of his defending in a back four . I think he would be the perfect replacement for Bobby i really do i think the lad would shine in that position . Hendo still has some legs left so throw him in at right back till we find right player for that position if we don't already have him at the club.

19.) 10 Apr 2023
10 Apr 2023 20:35:00
Fully on the money there, Lfc hopeful on the second goal BUT if that is the case then, let us get in the right personel to cover for Trent in that role in the summer to allow the CB's to stay in their zones rather than leave them caught in 2 minds like VVD was. That would be the solution for me.

Now I will say that when Martinelli had the ball, VVD checks and sees Jesus run off him. All he had to do was point to and give a shoult to Robbo to get on his bike to pick him up. He doesn't do that and Robbo is ball watching not recognising the danger and the goal happens. Poor defending on both players, IMO.