04 Jan 2024 18:08:25
I honestly don't enjoy watching football today due to all the cheating. How many times have you heard pundits say, 'When you're running at speed, the slightest of touches makes you lose your balance and you fall over'. Or, 'he earnt that pen'.

I don't like cheating but all Premier League players are cheats and the prem should put a stop to it. But they won't because they want people to talk about the incidents to keep the tv companies in the limelight.

1.) 04 Jan 2024
04 Jan 2024 19:27:38
Iwilbered have you ever played football? I have and I have certainly been knocked out of my stride with the slightest nudge when running at speed, and I have certainly done the same thing to the opposition. don't get me wrong, I agree that there are some players that will cheat and dive, and that is why VAR need ex players to advise whetger there has been a foul or a dive.

2.) 04 Jan 2024
04 Jan 2024 20:02:01
You think this has only just started happening? Players have been cheating since the dawn of time.

3.) 04 Jan 2024
04 Jan 2024 20:11:20
Iwillbered, your beef should be with the authorities and NOT the players cos they have the power to stop players diving and trying to con the refs in the PL. You act as if diving, simulations and whatever we want to call it just started or something? That has been around for the past 30 years plus, literally a generation and there is NO way anyone can tell me that the authorities don't have a clue on how to stop it whereas fans on here eslsewhere have been providing concreter solutions on how to curb this trend.

A ref saw Bukayo Saka blatantly dive to get a pen vs WH. Did he book him? No. Harry Kane, Son, Alli, Vardy, Grealish etc. were on diving sprees for years. Did any of those guys get booked esp. Kane and Alli? No. In fact their manager (the spineless Poch) made excuses for them and so did the English media pundit class. When Fergie was around, Ashley Young, Rooney, Ronaldo and all that were diving cheats as well. What did the ref. authorities do to them? Nothing cos Fergie would come down on them like a ton of bricks. See a trend here?

The system is rotten from the ground up, clearly. If you don't enjoy football anymore then, that's messed up BUT my only point here is that you're getting mad at the wrong people. the refs can book a player like Saka for diving and the authorities retrospectively ban a player for diving to win a penalty BUT none of this will happen cos they lack the bottle to ACTUALLY do anything about it.

4.) 04 Jan 2024
04 Jan 2024 20:23:10
Ffs, even the Newcastle GK has come out and said it was a pen and they can have no complaints.

5.) 04 Jan 2024
04 Jan 2024 22:02:43
Didn't think the comments could get more unhinged around "cheating". "All" players cheat? Nonsense. If you truly believe that, then why bother watching? Players regularly try to ride challenges and stay on their feet.
Yes, there are times when some dive, occasionally getting carded for it, but there are also times when contact may look slight but is actually well enough contact to effect your ability to continue.
There are also plenty of times when a player is fouled, they try and stay on their feet, and the move breaks down and the ref ignores it. So, players who exaggerate their fall are often doing so to make sure the ref doesn't ignore what is actually a foul.

6.) 04 Jan 2024
04 Jan 2024 22:04:51
Does anybody watch Rugby Union? If so, do you recall Richie McCaw - the All Black forward and captain? He spent most of the matches he played in just about / perhaps not quite offside, depending if you were an All Black fan or not. There was an ongoing debate for about a decade (at least in Australia) about him being a deliberate cheat or someone who pushed the rules to the limit.

The thing with VAR, or rather the people use VAR, is that they aren’t able to factor in the nuance - it isn’t legislated for in the rules.

In the old days, when officials had to rely on their skill at the job and the naked eye, they could factor in the nuance. They could have a quiet word - put players on a warning. These days with remote arbiters solely applying technology that doesn’t / can’t happen. It’s a shame in my opinion.

Everything has to be black and white. As I say the goalkeeper made contact with Jota (penalty) and two paces later (and I’m willing to wager - thinking the ball may be getting away from him) Jota took a conscious decision to draw the ref and VAR’s attention to the contact. Still a penalty but by examining it in microcosm Jota’s reputation takes a hit.

7.) 04 Jan 2024
04 Jan 2024 22:43:05
I can’t believe the noise Jota has made with something that happens in almost every game ?

Even our own fans won’t let it lie. Media driven nonsense trying to put off our most important goalscorer now Salah is away with Egypt. Up the reds!

I hope he bangs in a Hattrick against Arsenal and then dives and gets booked on purpose.

{Ed025's Note - well he has been practicing LFC8.. :)

8.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 04:15:24
iwillbered look at the Everton game tonight. Eze initiates contact, goes down and gets booked for simulation. He could do that another 99 times and he'd get a free kick. Happens 12-15 times a game now easy. I agree w the booking but my point here is the inconsistency in the refereeing. How on earth Calvert-Lewin got a straight red tonight I have no idea. Won the ball w a good tackle and then he's in an early bath. Players are just taking advantage of the refs being utterly incompetent and the refs are beholden to the rulemakers and applying the rules they've been told to apply. So it's a multi layered problem. Contact or not, it shroud be sufficient to knock a player to the ground or it's play on. It will obviously never be a perfect science but it will be much closer to it than what we have right now. It's becoming unwatchable at times and I hate to see our players stooping to that level w Jota at the weekend. It's always been about winning or at least not losing but there was a line to the level of sportsmanship. Take a Graeme Souness or a Mucky Duncan and try to knock them down or try to let them think that you've caused them physical pain. Not a chance. Players are totally different now and the game is poorer for it.

{Ed001's Note - Calvert-Lewin went over the ball with studs first, nowhere near the ball, only his trailing leg collected the ball. It was a red all day long. His foot never rolled over the ball after getting it, he missed the ball with his front foot because his foot was so high. Another controversy that makes no sense.}

9.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 04:23:22
Burkeyboy, respectfully there has got to be an expectation that the game is played to a certain level of physicality. Players now go down as soon when they feel a body brush up against them. They could quite easily fight to stay on their feet, as Salah does game after game, and play the game as it was intended to be played. It's heading towards being a non-contact sport in the way the "foul" and "contact" cheese is being moved each season especially since the advent of VAR. The modern game has so many great aspects to it and football at its best there is nothing like it. But the gamesmanship is making the game all the poorer for me.

10.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 04:55:46
Well Ed I didn't see it as meeting the criteria of serious foul play or endangering an opponent. Looked very soft to me.

{Ed001's Note - it is clearly endangering an opponent to slide in over the ball. I don't understand what the argument is. If his foot makes contact at ground level or ball level, fair enough, it is fine, but once you lift your foot higher than the ball, then it becomes a problem. Going over the ball has always been seen as a potential red. If he wasn't English, the commentators would have been screaming blue murder about that foul. Because he is English it is 'soft'. Going over the ball was always considered an attempt to nobble an opponent when I played, because that is exactly what it is. You don't go over the ball unless you are trying to get something past the ball.}

11.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 07:10:32
And here lies the problem that we currently face.

A Non-English player, Jota, goes down and is awarded a penalty, EVEN after the keeper admitted to fouling him, and he is being roasted like a pig in a spit. then there is the English guy, Calvert-Lewin, who goes in over the top, studs up with a leg breaking challenge, gets rightfully sekt off, and people are calling it controversial

Xenophobic much!

12.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 07:58:41
Did Calvert Lewin actually make any contact with the opposing player? If he did it was minimal and again the reaction of the opposing player where he delays falling to the ground would suggest he hardly got touched.
I might be wrong ?‍♂️, maybe I need my eyes tested ?.

{Ed025's Note - people see what they want to see Irish, Curtis Jones got sent off for a similar..if not worse challenge earlier on in the season and there was uproar on here mate...tribalism at its very best i would suggest..

13.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 08:16:21
I think the keepers comments are being misinterpreted. He says that Jota is a clever guy and he pulls his hands away also he was frustrated with VAR. This does Sound like a guy who is putting his hands up to a penalty. When he says “it’s a penalty” he’s saying that’s what the official gave.

14.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 08:39:52
the praise Mo gets for riding a challenge and staying on his feet is an abyss of black hole silence compared to if he was perceived to have dived.

is what it is to me. when there is no contact then I get it, that's a full-on dive and cheating. everything else is fair game to me.

{Ed025's Note - Mo was a serial diver when he first came Faith, no doubt testament to his time at Roma, but he turned it around and all power to him mate..

15.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 08:47:48
@LiverpoolFC8 isn’t Darwin our main goal scoring threat as our central attacker?

16.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 09:33:22
WDW - Richie himself said that the thing he tried to do the best was adjust to the referee and how they were refereeing that particular game.

Just watched the replay of that moment DCL is sent off and um, his foot is high, catches the opposition player in the middle of his shin. That's a red.

17.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 10:11:03
Anyone who states that the slightest touch knocks you off balance, ought to watch rugby or dare I say, even American Football. You're being grabbed by 18-22 stone men, round your waist or legs, yet they seem to stay on their feet, travelling at speed whilst attempts at pulling them to the ground happen to them.

18.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 10:12:08
Studs first, over the height of the ball. Not intentional maybe but by today's rules it's a straight red. It is very clearly dangerous play regardless of intent.

19.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 10:32:36
bakedbeanboy - the rugby quivalent would be a faf de klerk ankle tap. have ya seen all those beheamoths keep their balance after getting their ankles clipped?

20.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 11:04:42
You do indeed see what you want to see Ed25. I usually agree with you as you are mostly a fair bloke but to compare DCL over the top tackle to Curtis Jones is just a deflection and patently false.

Curtis’s foot was low at the point he got the ball, the block challenge and his momentum made his foot slide over the ball and as it planted on the other side Bissouma’s leg was in the way and got caught. It was not a dangerous challenge and the outcome was just unfortunate.

That is very different to going over the top of the ball, sliding with a high foot, showing studs.

I get frustrated with the way referees seem to give decisions based on the outcome rather than the action itself. Udogie got a yellow against Chelsea when he clearly jumped in with 2 feet, with excessive force but because Sterling jumped out of the way it’s not deemed a red. It should be the action of the tackle that is deemed dangerous and worthy of a red not the outcome.

Now we have people saying that DCL hardly caught the player. So what? If we allow people to jump in, showing studs, over the top of the ball as long as they only make minimal contact we’ll have broken legs all over the place.

{Ed025's Note - to be fair BP anyone who thought that was a red last night is as thick as toast mate and thats not me with blue tinted glasses on, everyone with an ounce of sense is saying the same..

21.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 11:52:20
That's a red 25. If that was VVD on Calvert Lewin you'd be wanting a red card too. He's not a malicious player in the slightest, but that's a straight red all day long and twice on Sundays.

{Ed025's Note - then the game is finished Flash..

22.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 11:58:34
@Faith - Richie, according to a lot of Aussies I know, is probably a fibber too ?. In my opinion he was playing to the limit rather than trying to cheat and I think Jota was too. He was fouled by the keeper and he was just making sure everybody knew he had been fouled.

@JLC, I’m not sure where you get the xenophobia from. It was only last season that Gordon was, quite rightly, being called out as a diving cheat for his efforts in keeping Everton in the PL. The game is global, so are the cheats.

23.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 12:48:09
Did CL make much if any contact with the Player Flash the Red ?‍♂️. I didn’t think he did, minimal if any.

24.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 14:29:46
WDW. maybe the use if the word xenophobic is a bit over the top, but the comment was directed at the narrative of the amount of stick non-english players get

Wrt Gordon, like one of the Ed's said previously, "even a broken clock is correct twice a day"

25.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 12:34:36
Lol only just seen it, I can't believe it's been discussed, that is a red. I don't think he meant anything by it mind, but you can't get away with that. He was been reckless in the moment and the decision was the right one, for a change.

{Ed025's Note - i dont think its even close Salah...not even a yellow mate..

26.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 13:51:00
Ed25, I have seen the Calvert Lewin incident and to be fair, there is no real contact on Clyne's shin so on one hand, I can see why you and others think it should just have been a yellow. On the other hand, Calvert Lewin went in, studs up from jump with his foot at shin level before Clyne even gets to him and on that level, contact or not, I can see why the red was given cos it was clearly ss endangerment of the safety of the opposing player.

What you are missing here is that the level/ amount of contact is NOT the issue as the rule (or a part of it) does not state that there HAS to be full contact/ injury/ damage on the oppo. player for it to be wreckless. We cannot allow this stuff that the oppo. player has to be injured for the red card to happen. That's NOT a thing and NO rule supports that notion. It's like saying a player who visibly tried to elbow and injure an oppo. player should not be sent off for violent conduct cos he missed.

That is why based on the VAR and ref's estimation (and the rule), Calvert Lewin was careless, wreckless and endangered the safety of the oppo. player, all things that fit the parameters of a red card offence, IMO.

{Ed025's Note - then the game has gone soft Oli, what next?..do we outlaw tackles in case someone gets hurt, or ban heading in case you get a headache, or not let goalies save in case he hurts a finger?, its time to call it a day if thats a red mate..

27.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 15:11:50
Ed25, yes cos that is the law. You may not like it BUT that does not make the law not the law. Pretty sure you can hold both thoughts at the same time. Players safety have to be protected at all costs and that has been the case for decades. You're going to have to get over it cos NOBODY wants to see tackles flying in shin/ knee high and potentially sending players to the hospital the same way the Portuguese defenders nearly crippled Pele in the 1966 WC.

Also, tackles from behind used to end careers back in the day until it the rule changed cos it is what sent the legendary Marco Van Basten into retirement due to the tyes of tackles he sufferred in the Serie A. I can keep going.

Here you ask where has the game gone? Allow me to help you here: The game has become entertainment and a spectacle with leading actors (players and managers) . So in order to assure maximum entertainment, the players need to be protected from themselves hence, the rules that are now there, including the rule that correctly applied that got DLC correctly sent off, IMO. The rules will NOT change for you, me nor for even Elon Musk. Get with times or get left behind cos this ain't 70's, 80's or even 90's footie anymore.

{Ed025's Note - when you say "leading actors" i hope you are meaning Jota last week Oli?, and the law is an ass mate, you were all crying your eyes out when Curtis got sent off against Spurs because his leg was bent...never mind that he nearly broke the lads leg, yet you want DCL hung drawn and quartered for a low block that the ref who was very close never even deemed a foul!, or is it because the little shithouse was an ex-red?..

28.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 15:21:28
In my opinion not even a yellow.
It’s a contact sport, VAR yet again ruining the game.
Slows the match down and then freeze frames it to make it look bad to justify poor decisions.
When I played those tackles happened and you got on with it. I didn’t play anywhere near that level but still the same game and rules.
I hope Everton appeal win the appeal and then he scores the winner!

{Ed025's Note - i think your right MR..

29.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 16:31:33
To be fair I think Calvert Lewin made contact with a hair follicle. It made Jota crumble ?‍♂️?.

30.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 16:52:14
Playing Devil's Advocate here Irish: If someone goes in over dangerously over the ball, whether intentionally or just because they're clumsy, but the opponent gets out of the way, why should it not be a red?

If the authorities are trying to cut the tackle out, then surely it's intention, or recklessness or clumsiness that they should punish. Not outcome.

31.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 17:51:58
I don’t disagree SR, if they were to change the rules that you don’t even have to make contact with the player, straight red, at least we would know where we stand.
I just don’t think it was by any means excessive but he did go over the ball, fair enough, made minimal contact with Cllyne and he made a meal of it.

Saka’s shove on Tsimikas was worse and Jones was certainly worse yet on here they tried to justify it .

32.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 18:12:00
Well nice to see that this debate is settled.

33.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 18:15:51
Bottom line the game has gone soft and we have to accept it or stop watching. The players are conmen, the refs are incompetent and inconsistent, and the rule makers want to be in charge and continually tinker making the game much more controversial a la American sports. It's called progress. Apparently.

{Ed025's Note - its called trying to fix something that was never broken for me RF..

34.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 18:38:15
Irish you are completely wrong mate. The rule says nothing about contact and not should it. By your thinking I can swing a punch at someone on a football pitch and as long as I miss I won’t be sent off. That’s crazy.

You have to penalise the action not the outcome. That’s why Curtis’s can be argued because it was not a dangerous action even though the outcome looked bad. He went in low to the ground and got the ball and it was a block tackle and momentum that made his foot slide over the ball. The actual action of the tackle was not dangerous even though the outcome was unlucky.

DCL has gone over the top of the ball at shin height, whether he made contact with the player or not the action is dangerous.

We can’t just allow people to jump in over the ball or two footed as long as they only make minimal contact because sometimes they will make full contact and break someone’s leg.

You can go back as far as Mane’s red card against City when he caught the keeper in the face. I’m fine with that being a red card as long as every time someone raises their foot in the vicinity of another player they get a red card. You can’t just send Mane off because he caught him but on another day the keeper gets out of the way of the same challenge so it’s not a red card. It’s the action that is dangerous regardless of the outcome.

That being said I do agree with Ed25 and others on this thread about the game becoming soft. We have more red cards now than ever before and it’s ruining the game. The problem is, when they give the soft red and yellow cards that they have been giving all season then suddenly every tackle has a precedent for a red or yellow card.

We now have managers screaming for second yellows in every game because they want to gain an advantage and the officials are to blame for some of the cards they’ve been dishing out for nothing.

35.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 19:02:55
yep that's a great adage and about sums it up.

36.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 19:36:08
Becks you always make good points but beg to differ on the DCL contact. It has to be reckless and I don't see how that is reckless. There has to be force and intent and I don't see either. We have to use discretion here when applying the rules and common sense here prevailed imo w the on-field decision.

The game never was nor never will be without error but it's all part and parcel of sports imo. Bring in the offside tech that they use in the CL and bring back retrospective punishment ie yellow/ red etc on a Monday morning. Bin VAR and watch the play acting and cheating go down 80%.

37.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 19:44:57
SR u make a good point but other things have to be considered. It was pelting it down last night and the surface was greasy etc. So many considerations but at the end of the day some common sense has to be applied to each situation and not have a black and white it's red it's not red approach. I think intent has to be there (think Son on Gomez ref just sent him off due to the nature of the injury and not the actual tackle which was overturned on appeal) . Again, so many considerations. I think the ref got this one spot on but hey it's jmo.

38.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 20:19:01
A broken leg doesn't care whether there was intent or not, it's still damaged goods.
You go over the top of the ball you can expect to injure someone (potentially badly), therefore you can expect the red to go with it.
It's still a contact sport and always will be so injuries will always happen, but there has to be a line between what's deemed acceptable and not acceptable.
Accidental or not, DCL's tackle was high and his studs were clearly showing, and BP and Oli are correct that the physical outcome doesn't really matter in regard to the rules.
I wonder how many people would be seeing it differently if Clyne had suffered a nasty injury as a result?

39.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 20:29:22
Flash did you agree that Jones should have been sent off at tottenham? Recently forget the game but over the ball, didn't touch it, down the shin and no punishment.

They froze Jones' tackle to make it look like a leg breaker. Bissouma's foot was planted and his leg straight so if Jones' tackle was indeed a leg breaker, then Bissouma was going to be out for a while. I get that they want to stamp it out to prevent future challenges that could indeed break legs so i do get it. But there has to be some intent, force, etc. and I think each situation should be deemed on its own merits. In this case I think the on-field was correct. Play on.

Of course if Clyne had suffered an injury nobody wants to see that. If DCL had gone in w excessive force then I'd say yes it's a valid red but imo the force here was a 0 on a 1-10 scale.

40.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 20:37:02
"You have to penalise the action not the outcome".

Brilliantly put, @BP. This is literally the spirit of the footie law in this case and how it is applied. You cannot let a player off the hook for wrecklessly endangering the safety of another player just he missed him or caused minimal damage. Like if I swung a clear elbow at you on a football pitch, I can't be sent of cos you docked out of the way. That is absolute hogwash that has NO basis in fact nor the law. Neither is the typical "intent" argument by the way as that part got scrubbed off footie laws/ rules years ago.

IMO, this is the nonsense the PGMOL and their allies in the media are indoctrinating us with by giving fake interpretaions of clear FIFA rules like it is only a red if the victim gets injured. It was the same thing that got Kane off the hook when he nearly sent Robbo to the hospital. Same with Udogie on Sterling and so on.

They have dumbed-down these things as black and white and are using the tribalism that is ravaging English football among the watching public to accomplish their goal whereas the rules are pretty clear, half the time. Sorry, I ain't falling for their rubbish.

41.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 20:44:37
If Clyne didn't make a meal of the challenge, would CL still have been sent off.

42.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 21:25:49
I think we should ban goal celebrations. The force these players exert when they jump on top of one another I don't know how they manage to stay on their feet. ?.

43.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 21:27:43
Oilred so why was kane not sent off for tackle on robbo that was at top of his shin and that richarlason tackle on tiago that had out for weeks.

Mighty red hundred percent no were you are comming from these fannies today would not no what a tackle in our day mate was. Mate they go off with a twisted sock . As soon as i seen calvert lewin tackle i said to the mrs he is walking . And it was against an ex red was he trying to be the billy big nuts to the blue fans?

44.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 21:32:03
@JLC, Imho I think ‘stick’ is fairly evenly distributed mate. If you look at this board over th3 past 2 or 3 years TAA, Gomez, Elliot, Jones and Henderson have all taken stick at times and the reason the list stops there is because, off the top of my head, I can’t really think of many other regular starters. I’d not as bad this season, as, funnily enough, most of them seemed to have attended the ‘Learn How To Play Football’ Academy over the summer.

Look at Pickford, Maguire, Shaw, Trippier - in fact most of the English squad (and manager ?) . All or most unmercifully slagged off by everybody.

The reason most ‘Johnny Foreigner’ types get stick is because there are far more of them playing in the PL than chaps from good old Blighty.

As I say it’s a universal game and more foreigners take stick primarily because there are more of them playing the game.

45.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 21:54:25
I don't think foreign or english has anything to do w it. I do think Saka should have walked against us (yellow for Tsimikas then kicked the ball away) and we all know Kane on Robbo etc. Other than that I'd say it's just a mish mash of utter incompetency and inconsistency. A wonderful blend ?.

46.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 20:23:03
Ed25, there you go again getting all wound up and OTT. So me thinking that DCL was right to be sent off based on the rule itself is me trying too hang him out to dry? Seriosuly, we're doing this again? I literally gave a balanced assessment of the situation and how I understand why you think it is not a red and I gave my opinion based on the interpretation of the actual rule and all you got out of that was me trying to hang him out to dry? Mate, you are literally exhibiting the same tribalism that you claim to hate and that's a pity.

"Oh, what about the tackle by Jones. ". Now I never mentioned Jones, Jota or whoever since the DCL tackle is the topic at hand BUT since you brought it up, I'll chime in. CJ got full contact on the ball first along with Bissouma, something DCL did NOT do. His foot slipped on the ball before catching Bissouma, something that NEVER happened with DCL's challenge so based on the rule, both are red's under the rules governing both actions. Anything else? Oh, and intent is NOT part of the rule either. as BP said, you sanction the action and NOT the outcome. Pretty easy to understand.

Now in my last post, I provided actual facts and the rule as to how it applies and all you responded with is tribalistic stuff. You did not even address half the things I said about the rule which tells me, you can't argue the merits of the rules and how it applies an I understand that.

When you can't argue the facts, you argue the law. When you can't argue the law, you argue the facts. When you can't do either one, you bang your hand on the table and engage in tribalism and whataboutism. Awesome.

{Ed025's Note - look Oli i am aware of what the rules say but that does not make it right, there are so many interpretations that its confusing for the refs as well as the fans mate, the referee was right on top of the incident and waved play on so it was not a clear and obvious error, so why did the VAR get involved?, yes i quoted the Jota and Jones incidents because they were pertinent to how we all see things how we want to see them..dont take things too personally..

47.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 22:14:11
Are you lot for real? Never a sending off in any era, you are asking for non contact and zero challenges. He is even trying to withdraw the challenge.

The far left have gone mad. The tree huggers, stop oil, vegans and now stop challengers. Go back to watching netball or curling.

{Ed025's Note - i nearly choked on my nut cutlet when i read that mark...well done mate..

48.) 05 Jan 2024
05 Jan 2024 22:21:39
Looking at the DCL tackle again i think if it had been yellow not too many would’ve complained but going in that high, over the ball you are just asking for a red card.

VAR makes these situations so much worse too because the VAR will play it in slow motion and freeze it at the point of contact and there tiny brains are at the same time trying to work out what rule applies to that situation. Refereeing should be much more instinctive given the atmosphere of the game, the conditions etc. but VAR has taken all of that away and just looks at a situation and tries to apply the appropriate rule.

In this case, in today’s game, given some of the really poor red cards we’ve seen all season that is a red card. I’ve heard people say it’s not even a foul! What kind of drugs are these people on? Whatever it is I want some.

{Ed025's Note - i personally think a yellow would have been harsh BP, the ref was right on the spot and gave nothing, then Bloody VAR poked their noses in forcing the ref to go to the screen, he was then in a position where he had to act or otherwise the pricks could not justify their job description, its as bent as a 9 bob note mate..

49.) 06 Jan 2024
06 Jan 2024 01:35:06
If one of ours was sent off for that we would be blowing up. Nothing in it.

50.) 06 Jan 2024
06 Jan 2024 06:00:06
I think this is the longest thread that’s ever been on this site and I just wanted to be part of it.

51.) 06 Jan 2024
06 Jan 2024 07:48:49
Dcl Should of been sin binned ?.

52.) 06 Jan 2024
06 Jan 2024 09:11:28
Bit of a back track there BP mate, if you going to penalise the action regardless of the outcome ?‍♂️?.

53.) 06 Jan 2024
06 Jan 2024 08:04:04
Nice one @Stoneage - that made me chuckle ??.

54.) 06 Jan 2024
06 Jan 2024 11:06:04
WDW - not sure world rugby has much time for opinions from australia mate lol can they just sort out a competitive team hahaha :p

back to the debate - For people arguing that it isn't a red and for some not even a yellow, can you provide a framework for how those incidents should be refereed?

55.) 06 Jan 2024
06 Jan 2024 11:09:54
Any studs first challenge should be considered for a red card, even more so if no contact is made with the ball. Even if the player making the challenge isn't putting much into it or tries to withdraw, the opponent could be rushing into the challenge. So those studs are still going to do damage.
DCL's challenge was a straight red, and if it had been the other way round with him and Clyne Everton fans would have been screaming for a Clyne's dismissal.

56.) 06 Jan 2024
06 Jan 2024 14:13:47
It’ll be interesting to see how Everton’s appeal goes. For me, it’s never a red card and just to counter Flash the Red, if it was a Liverpool player that made the challenge then plenty on here, including some who are saying red card now would be screaming the house down.
Anyway, let’s hope for no controversy tomorrow ?.

57.) 06 Jan 2024
06 Jan 2024 14:40:23
Did someone make some kind of random tinhat accusation to lefties?
How sensitive do you have to be to drop that on here.

Irish - adding emotion to the debate doesn't change the debate. What Is a studs up tackle, over the ball, hitting an opposition player's shin?

58.) 06 Jan 2024
06 Jan 2024 15:46:52
I finally got to the end of this thread and have forgotten what I wanted to post.

59.) 06 Jan 2024
06 Jan 2024 19:21:39
How is that a backtrack Irish? I said it was a red in my first post and I still maintained it was a red.

I don’t think too many would argue if it was yellow because people seem to have this misconception that there needs to be full contact for it to be dangerous. Clyne was just lucky his leg wasn’t an inch the other way or he could’ve had 14 stone of Calvert Lewin crashing into it and more than likely snapping it in two.

It was a red all day long especially considering some of the other red cards we’ve seen this season.

60.) 06 Jan 2024
06 Jan 2024 21:38:55
Becks can see WHY it was given (to prevent foot up challenges sliding out of control potentially etc) but it was SOFT AT BEST. Not nearly enough force to snap a twig imo. Way more force is applied with last ditch tackles, blocked shots etc.

Sport in all its many variations has always had serious injuries but it doesn't stop athletes from taking risks every time they play whatever it is they play. Yep sure protect players from the Ben Thatcher type players and root them out. But minimal contact, feigning an injury to win a free kick and it's now a red and 3 match ban for violent conduct. gmab. Now we have to define what is and what is not acceptable contact. Such a grey area.

Devil's advocate: if a player attempts to keep a ball in play, prevents a goal, etc. and puts his feet up in the process and slides to make contact with the ball without an opponent within ten yards should he be sent off because we theoretically don't need full contact for it to be deemed reckless?

Bottom line each situation needs to be judged on its own merits and some common sense applied before the game completely loses its mind. jmo.

Good debate will it ever end tho. ?.

61.) 07 Jan 2024
07 Jan 2024 10:03:40
Agreed Redflyer ?.

62.) 07 Jan 2024
07 Jan 2024 10:34:07
@Faith, being born in England and living in Australia, watching the Australian RFU and what they call a squad is almost as much fun as being a Liverpool fan watching the United comedy show ?.

On a different matter, it is genuinely sad hoping, on the day before a match, that there won’t be another in the long list of VAR controversies.

63.) 07 Jan 2024
07 Jan 2024 13:08:24
What I’ve taken from this thread.

English officials and VAR are incompetent

But English officials and VAR were correct in the controversial decision to send off Calvert Lewin

So in layman’s terms this reads Officials and VAR are incompetent when decisions go against us and are correct the other times.