09 Jul 2023 08:15:24
Edd001 do you think the squad is now getting managed better? With the likes of keita lost for nothing, is this a bigger priority from the new dof? Would you like klopp to be more ruthless?
We bought two young stars but I feel like we're still being loyal to players who are clearly on the decline and running down more of their contracts. I thought one of Henderson, fabinho or thiago surely had to be moved on this summer even though we lost a few midfielder but their age, huge salaries and performances last season suggested to most fans klopp would mayve let go of one.
Even centre defense, virg and matip. If virg turns in those same performances even with a stronger defensively set up team and midfield (Back to press) it's holding the team back. For me it's disappointing, we could have sold a declining virg and then pursued the future that is gvardiol. Would also send out a message to other players who gave up in games last season.

{Ed001's Note - the window is still open, bit early to judge whether the squad has been managed better! Let's wait and see what state it is in once it has closed.}

1.) 09 Jul 2023
09 Jul 2023 08:42:06
We're going to have to wait a while before we can judge that topic, OP.

2.) 09 Jul 2023
09 Jul 2023 08:33:29
Thiago must be costing a fair packet per game. Jorge is here to be ruthless so Jurgen doesn't have to be. I'm looking forward to seeing how deep the clear out goes, just hope Jorge's sales ability is as efficient as his purchasing.

3.) 09 Jul 2023
09 Jul 2023 09:39:37
Did Virg have a worse season than Gomez, Konate and Matip last season?

For me he had a massive drop off compared to his previous seasons but he was still our best centre half.

But if I had a choice of keeping him or selling him to bring the wages down and balance those books then it’s get those wages down every time.

Reducing wages seems to be held in higher regard than titles these days.

Imagine not qualifying for the CL and losing the net spend title in the same year. How would we recover as fans.

For me I don’t pay the players wages so if the owners and their money men put them on the contracts then clearly they’re happy to pay them.

4.) 09 Jul 2023
09 Jul 2023 09:48:22
The signs are good so far I think though Ed001. Loaning out Carvalho and Ramsay is good, rather than having them sat on the wage bill doing nothing. Releasing Milner, Ox, Keita and Bobby is annoying to lose them on frees, but also about time we cut loose some of the aging and injury prone players on big wages. Then not giving Arthur a contract on the option to buy was sensible. Van Berg, Phillips and Williams looking like they're going too. That'll be 10 senior players shipped out.

So the fact we've only signed Mac Allister and Szoboszlai thus far is good. No doubt we'll add a CB and maybe 1 more player, but overall that still means a greatly reduced wage bill and also a smaller group for Klopp to work with.

I just hope we don't give new deals to Matip, Virgil, Hendo and Thiago in the next 12 months. Personally I'd be looking to move all 4 of them on next summer. Matip and Thiago would be out of contract, but we'd probably be able to get a fee for both Hendo and Virgil. We shouldn't really let too many players leave in one summer though. Ox, Keita, Bobby and Milner were all key first team players and it's madness to try and tear the whole squad up in one go. I'd say maybe 1 more first team player should go and that is Gomez so we can get Virgil's successor in and phase him out this season. 4 or 5 key squad members leaving in one summer is enough though. It's annoying we've let it get to the stage where there are nearly 10 players we need to replace now or in the next year, but we don't want to turn next season into one of transition. Evolution, not revolution.

{Ed001's Note - you think Matip should stay? Why?}

5.) 09 Jul 2023
09 Jul 2023 10:19:46
MK - We should be targeting quality rather than numbers, which is why I don’t understand some talking about us having 9 midfielders. By numbers, yes, we have 9 midfielders - but only 4 of them are good enough at this stage (two new signings, Trent, and Thiago. I’m not sold on Jones, though I do believe Elliott has potential) . More to your point, though we let 4 players go this summer, only one of them was providing anything meaningful to the team, and he turns 38 in 6 months. Firmino needed to move on, and Keita/ Ox were counterproductive to our progress. The latter two provided close to nothing for half a decade each.
Regardless of how many it comes to, getting rid of players who are not up to it any longer is a positive step for the club.

6.) 09 Jul 2023
09 Jul 2023 10:52:16
“only one of them was providing anything meaningful to the team and he turns 38 in 6 months”

But harsh on Bobby. He scored 13 goals last season and was injured for a large part of the season.

7.) 09 Jul 2023
09 Jul 2023 11:17:46
Van Dijk turned 32 yesterday apparently.
I think he's got plenty in the tank and is good for the remaining 2 years of his contract.
Getting rid of someone of his stature and experience would be a false economy imo.
Talking of wages, I thought the high wages at Liverpool were partly performance related?
Presumably the lack of Cl football and poorer last season will bring the wage bill down in any case?

8.) 09 Jul 2023
09 Jul 2023 11:20:57
Navy - Bobby is a bonafide club legend, but he wasn’t up to it any longer and that’s that. There are lies, damned lies, and statistics. Bobby scored 13 goals last season, a significant number of which where against already-beaten opposition. He was not impacting games at anything like the level he did for so long previously.

9.) 09 Jul 2023
09 Jul 2023 11:05:54
Ed001, purely because Gomez is a significantly worse player. I'd rather have Matip on 1 ankle playing 10 games a season, than Gomez anywhere near the starting XI.

{Ed001's Note - I disagree completely. And Gomez has the bonus of being able to actually move and offers cover for right back. Plus he is on a quarter of the wage of the ridiculously overrated by you Matip.}

10.) 09 Jul 2023
09 Jul 2023 11:34:11
I'm still a Gomez fan too.

11.) 09 Jul 2023
09 Jul 2023 11:37:19
All those expecting a huge clear out of the squad and lots more incomings to replace them are in for a rude awakening.

12.) 09 Jul 2023
09 Jul 2023 11:50:04
Yeah I’d much rather keep Gomez than Matip. Much more useful and also a whole lot younger.

13.) 09 Jul 2023
09 Jul 2023 12:07:42
If we hang our hat on Matip and Gomez to cover Ibou, we’ll have learned nothing from the last 3 seasons.

14.) 09 Jul 2023
09 Jul 2023 12:13:02
Pre injury Gomez was establishing himself as a quality English CB. Given a good run of games we may see signs of that again. If he can learn to judge the high balls then he will be fine. His pace is very good and he is still young.
Re VVD, I'll be shocked if he doesn't return to somewhere near his best this coming season. At his best, there is none better anywhere, IMO.

15.) 09 Jul 2023
09 Jul 2023 12:25:36
I agree with the op maybe the new dof will help in regards to this but klopp has to learn from his mistakes he fine this at Dortmund with kehl, Suboti, blachokwski to name a few.

At least ten players from that squad need replacing within two seasons or we will be in a big mess.

As for Virgil being 32 that means this would be the only chance to get any kind of fee for him so if we hold on to him for two years we will lose him on a free anyway, fabinho also looks like he's heading this way.

This needs sorting because from a business point of view it's very poor.

16.) 09 Jul 2023
09 Jul 2023 12:44:30
I don't over rate Matip at all though Ed001. He's average but still our 3rd best centre back though and Klopp agrees because Gomez only ever plays if Matip and Konate are injured.

{Ed001's Note - Klopp also thought Steven Caulker and Ozan Kabak were good enough to sign them, so he is clearly not infallible. Strange how you want to hide behind his opinion when you spend so much of the year telling us how many mistakes Klopp makes.}

17.) 09 Jul 2023
09 Jul 2023 13:21:35
I would take a fit Matip over a fit Gomez every time at CB but Matip can’t stay fit and I don’t think Gomez is ever going to replicate that good season he had. Of course I guess we can’t off load all the players in one window, can we?
Gomez can cover RB but I don’t think he’s particularly effective there either but Ramsey is out on loan and Bradley I think might get another loan, that’s my opinion.
So I don’t think either will move on, Matip
will run his contract down and Gomez will give RB a go when needed. Not ideal at all, we can only hope big Konate stays healthier than normal and the use of the other 2 isn’t so much.

18.) 09 Jul 2023
09 Jul 2023 13:27:34
Burkeyboy. Did Gomez not get a good run of games at the start of last season?

19.) 09 Jul 2023
09 Jul 2023 13:37:01
I’ve always kind of liked Matip ( I also like Gomez) and thought that he was definitely a player that was always unappreciated.

Saying that though his performance last season away to Palace was probably the worst game of football he had ever played in his life and from that game onwards he looked like a nervous wreck in and out of possession

On paper ( I know you don’t win anything on paper) there’s not many clubs in the league that can boast what we have for the 4 central defenders and even throw in Phillips as 5th choice.

The beauty of a new season is it’s a brand new chapter for the players to write their stories and last season only counts for Europe.

If Matip and Gomez stay then I’d love to see them both have good seasons.

A bigger concern for me that seems to have gone under the radar is Konate was injured more last season then Matip and Gomez who get slated for their unavailability so it’s a big season for Konate to be available also.

20.) 09 Jul 2023
09 Jul 2023 14:13:48
That’s it JK, Konate has to stay fit, then all this Matip or Gomez can be a moot point .

I’d still take Matip tho over Gomez ?.

21.) 09 Jul 2023
09 Jul 2023 14:46:56
That comment is a bit confusing Ed001. You mocked me for saying Klopp makes mistakes but in the same reply you agreed he makes mistakes. Ultimately I'm allowed an opinion mate, and i'm not hiding behind Klopp's decision to use Gomez sparingly, I was trying to be respectful about it. I don't want to absolutely tear into Gomez online because it gets misconstrued as abuse, but you've left me with little choice but to go into detail now by being quite rude about my opinion which was being very reasonable, albeit not sharing your own view.

Gomez has been diabolical since his knee injury in my opinion. Even before that he was a weak link and I always stuck by that opinion as far back as when Virgil was covering his weaknesses in our title winning season. You also shared my viee at the time that Wijnaldum was a weak link. Virgil just isn't good enough to cover for anybody now though. He struggles himself at times.

Gomez was involved in far too many of our bad games last season for it to be a coincidence but the worst ones by far were the Napoli (4-1) and Madrid (2-5) games where he managed to be at fault for 3 goals in both games. In our quadruple chasing season he barely started games because Matip, Virgil and Konate stayed fit all season. We saw the benefit of not having to rely on post-injury Gomez other than the odd Carabao cup game or dead rubber. Last season when he was relied on until February (when Matip and Konate finally returned), Gomez repeatedly let the team down. He just hasn't recovered mentally in my opinion. He shrinks away from tackles and seems to avoid aerial duels too. Despite being a weak link pre-injury it was never to this extent and I always thought it was more a case of the rest of the team being so good rather than him actually being bad. If Gomez can't trust his body now, we can't carry a passenger like that in the heart of the defence.

So to reiterate wasn't hiding behind anything, i just didn't want to explain myself because it's tabboo on here to criticise our players. People get upset and call you out for abusing players even if it's just a level headed analysis. I just want to be challenging for trophies again next season. In the long run we need to replace Matip and Gomez, but we're not realistically going to do that in one window. So I'd rather lose Matip on a free next summer than sell him for a nominal €5-10m fee and then potentially end up with Gomez starting a crucial game next season. I'd rather gamble on Matip's fitness than gamble on Gomez suddenly getting over whatever mental block is holding him back. Torres and Owen were never the same and I think Gomez has the same issue. You're right, Matip is on higher wages, but he's arguably on higher wages because he's a better player, and I'd rather keep a better player for a season.

For balance, I do appreciate Gomez is more versatile, homegrown, on a lower salary, more mobile, less injury prone and equally as nice a bloke. I'd just feel far more confident if there was a final tomorrow and we had Matip starting at CB instead of Gomez. I don't think that is a crime to say or an unreasonable opinion.

Another poster said it, that we can't cull the entire squad in one summer and that is spot on. We have already got rid of 7 first team players. I think you risk destabilising the dressing room if we throw Matip, Thiago, Fabinho and Henderson on the scrap heap too like some are calling for. Especially when we have worse players in the squad still like Gomez. Ultimately i agree that we've held on to these players too long and we should've started phasing them out last summer or even the one before. But we didn't and now i just think we need to walk before we can run. I'm not saying keep Matip because he's a great player or because he's indispensable, I'm just trying to be realistic about things. If we try and change 10 players overnight we could end up like Chelsea in a rather desperate transition period. I think it's too easy to forget players are people and amongst the squad you have players who are friends and whose kids and wives are friends. If you go in with a sledgehammer and start smashing up the dynamic and the environment in any work place that can disillusion those left behind. You're well entitled to disagree with that. I'm wrong as much as anyone. But please don't patronize me when I've never once disrespected you. You know me far better than to imply I'd hide behind another persons opinion when I'm one of the most outspoken people on here to the extent half the posters don't even like me ?.

{Ed001's Note - I have no idea what you said I am not reading this because I know your 'insight' is always based on the out of context misuse of stats. Pointless.}

22.) 09 Jul 2023
09 Jul 2023 16:06:20
I have been visiting this site for at least 10+ years and I still don't understand the rudeness of some posts. This is both for posters and eds. Granted, I do have more sympathy for the eds as they have to read through endless posts of garbage, tedious and abusive posts, but sometimes they ate very abrubt/ rude when they don't need to be. I'm all up for a discussion (even though i rarely partake myself) and disagreement, but surely it's better when it's civil/ constructive. I hope this doesn't get me banned, as I am not having ago at anyone or (hopefully) saying something out of order, I just really don't want to lose the great insight/ discussions by some good posters and the brilliant eds.

23.) 09 Jul 2023
09 Jul 2023 16:38:30
Well written MK. I'm still on the fence with Gomez and Matip. You made good points but i'm still afraid of Matips fitness, will he be there when needed?
Keep posting mate, imo you're one of the better posters on here.

24.) 09 Jul 2023
09 Jul 2023 17:14:14
Cant remember the last time gomez had a good game. Maybe at right back. At centre back he's a liability since his injury. Constant mistakes. He was always terrible at judging the ball in the air but he had pace to make up for it now unfortunately he miss judges things on the ground too. I'm with MK If we had a big game based on recent performances I'd pick matip over gomez. Gomez is still relatively young but he doesn't seem to be getting his form back. Maybe he needs a run of games but he shouldn't be getting that run in our team unless we want to conceed more silly goals.

25.) 09 Jul 2023
09 Jul 2023 19:08:33
Troweller, cheers mate. I wouldn't stop posting mate, but i appreciate you saying that. I have a concern about Matip's fitness too. The only positive is he always seems to bounce straight back after injuries. I definitely wouldn't be offering a new contract to him though. I'm purely saying keep him because I don't see us buying 2 CB's in one window and i personally think he's our 3rd best right now, with Gomez our 4th best. A) it is too much of an overhaul in one go and B) we probably don't have the money to sign 2 top CB's this window after already spending about €120m on the midfield.

26.) 09 Jul 2023
09 Jul 2023 19:08:33
Troweller, cheers mate. I wouldn't stop posting mate, but i appreciate you saying that. I have a concern about Matip's fitness too. The only positive is he always seems to bounce straight back after injuries. I definitely wouldn't be offering a new contract to him though. I'm purely saying keep him because I don't see us buying 2 CB's in one window and i personally think he's our 3rd best right now, with Gomez our 4th best. A) it is too much of an overhaul in one go and B) we probably don't have the money to sign 2 top CB's this window after already spending about €120m on the midfield.