18 Aug 2023 04:26:39
Why is Edwards held in such poor regard here?

He regularly got way over market value for players being sold. Negotiated fast and hard for players coming in and quite often got exactly what we needed.

It's my understanding the old over paid squad was because of klopp. If the manager tells you he doesn't want new players and instead wants to retain the ones he has, and those players just recently won every trophy possible then your hands are tied. You will end up giving big contracts to players because your manager has made it clear to those players that they will be staying.

Doesn't seem like Edwards did much wrong but if his treatment inside the club was the same as outside I can see why he left.

Am I wrong here? Maybe ed001 can give me a different perspective?

Nevada.

{Ed001's Note - he did neither, he regularly lumbered us with players that could not be sold because he asked too much and he rarely got the players in that we needed. He was far too weak and allowed Klopp to overrule him. You are way off mate.

You are forgetting he was the director above Klopp and could have sold players or simply refused their wage demands to force a sale rather than overpay them. He was abysmal and promoted way over his competence level. Not his fault, it was the club's. He had no experience or skill in the area he was being asked to work in. He is a stats man and should have stayed in a role that used his skills - which are excellent in that area.}

1.) 18 Aug 2023
18 Aug 2023 04:50:04
Ed1 - you mentioned elsewhere that Klopp basically wanted to hold onto players. I’d that is the case, Im wondering how effective he would have been had he been able to just do the job of recruiting, adjusting squad with less influence from Klopp? I think this might be what you’re saying by the previous reply.

My take on edwards is that he built on over sized, ageing, overpaid squad and struggled to sort out some of our youth with effective loans and sales. But given the influence of Klopp, I feel like his data led approach would have meant more turnover in the squad and potentially even more unearthed gems. Bit hypothetical, but what’s your take on that?

{Ed001's Note - I agree it is likely that he would have wanted a smaller squad etc, but he was a big part of the problem with selling them as he believed, like Nevada does, that he was successful at selling players for over the odds. It wasn't his skill that did that, it was circumstances which presented the likes of Howe (who ended up giving up his involvement in recruitment due to being so poor at it) on a plate to Edwards. Once that was gone, Edwards was hopeless and just ended up keeping hold of players that never even played.

Again, I have to point out that any interference from Klopp is something he was in a position to deal with. He was the director over Klopp. It was his weakness that allowed Klopp to overrule him, rather than, as it should have been, him overruling Klopp.}

2.) 18 Aug 2023
18 Aug 2023 07:29:15
And to add to that, Ed. It was common knowledge on here that Edwards would price players that needed to go like Ox, Naby or even Markovic out of moves instead of just taking what we could get for them, clear the wages off the books and make space for new players.

I remember not being able to get why we kept sending Markovic on stupid loans for the final years of the deal to Anderlecht and Sporting for ex whereas he was of no use to us. He would even be sent back in midsession and we would still keep him.

I’m not even bashing Edwards cos he did some good things but this is where the saying, “Correlation is not Causation” gets you. Cos the time he left coincided with our struggles in the window does not mean our success was down to him alone. As we are discovering now, he was a big part of the problem. Those building a statue for him need to put down their tools and look at the other side of the coin.

3.) 18 Aug 2023
18 Aug 2023 07:46:46
Also have to wonder what kind of mad bonuses we were putting in players contracts under Edwards because it’s crazy that we had the 2nd highest wage bill despite City and United regularly giving out 400k a week and Chelsea having a squad of 293.

4.) 18 Aug 2023
18 Aug 2023 07:47:50
Thanks for the reply ed.

I can see what you're saying about circumstances but even the circumstances of coutinho sale still didn't force the 144m price or the negotiation of a premium should Barcelona try to buy another player from us, those things are Edwards surely?

Also there players like solanke, ibe who were sold way above their value.

It's not an easy job and if you make selling players easy to facilitate their move then you'll often get your pants pulled down.

You mind if I ask you for an example of a DOF who you feel is the example to follow?

{Ed001's Note - the Barca that paid 150m for Dembele even though he went on a runner you mean? You think that getting a high price from them took good work from Edwards? Solanke and Ibe were both sold to Howe are you not even bothering to read my replies and understand them? If so I am wasting my time.

It is all very well saying that you don't want to get your pants pulled down but you also don't want Keita and Oxlade-Chamberlain taking 20m a year out of the club removing that money from potential spending.

The guy at Newcastle right now who was at Brighton is probably a good example.}

5.) 18 Aug 2023
18 Aug 2023 07:48:41
The players we sold were all to two teams right? Palace and Bournemouth both of whom we ripped. other places it wasn't that good. and Coutinho ofcourse. thank you barca.

6.) 18 Aug 2023
18 Aug 2023 08:23:22
Who on earth gives a stats keyboard jockey the keys to the til? .

Amazing if, and I assume it is, true. Cheers Ed01.

7.) 18 Aug 2023
18 Aug 2023 08:31:22
There are very few examples of players we sold at a profit to the definition of “FSG only buy low to sell high for profit”.
Go past Coutinho and a couple others, then it’s crickets.

8.) 18 Aug 2023
18 Aug 2023 08:48:13
If a sporting director is senior to the club first team coach / manager, who would you rather lose in the event that their relationship sours?
I don't care what the management hierarchy structure looks like on paper, in practice it's Klopp uber alles.

9.) 18 Aug 2023
18 Aug 2023 09:19:28
Juicer, be careful what you wish for. Sometimes I get a sense we're moving into a "late Wenger" phase at the club. Too much control in the hands of too few.
I don't subscribe to the theory that Klopp has credit in the bank. He's used what he has earned (same goes for Salah while I'm at it) .
In LFC we trust. No one else is bigger.

10.) 18 Aug 2023
18 Aug 2023 09:40:42
Why is Salah always dragged into these conversations? Struggling to know how he’s used up all of his credit when he’s never had a bad season. Him and Ali are the only ones blameless for last year.

11.) 18 Aug 2023
18 Aug 2023 09:46:50
Delvecs, you are not the only one with this opinion. I have seen other fans saying this as well. Now keep in mind that about 12 to 18 months ago, a lot of fans like Juicer, were saying Klopp should have more control over transfers and he should just be given whatever he wants, come hell or high water. If that is what is happening then, this is what you get: A Wenger situation.

Like you I have never subscribed to that notion of that a manager should be given whatever he wants regardless. That literally does not exist in any successful, well-run club. If this is the way we are headed then, people who were wanting Klopp to get whatever he wants and be given more power than the huge amount he already wields WILL get exactly what they deserve and they are not going to like it.

As the great philosopher Kanye West said, "No one man should have all that power".

12.) 18 Aug 2023
18 Aug 2023 09:51:19
Delvecs, are you deciding that Klopp and Salah have no credit in the bank? What qualifies you to do that?

13.) 18 Aug 2023
18 Aug 2023 10:24:06
Then when the club wants to move players on, due to the high wages other clubs refuse to meet their demands. And the player obviously won't accept a cut in salary. Catch 22.

14.) 18 Aug 2023
18 Aug 2023 11:07:47
Gaga then, the solution is that we negotiate better wages on their contracts so they can be easier to be moved on, should your theory be the case. Now if this cannot happen, if an offer comes for them and the club is ruthless and tells them that they have no future here, the players will have to think twice before just sitting here and collecting their wages.

Players of this level have some pride too and want to play and perform too a the end of the day, I think.

15.) 18 Aug 2023
18 Aug 2023 11:09:37
We definitely overpaid that squad.

And what did we get in return.

Champions league
Premier league
World club cup
Fa cup
League cup
Numerous finals
90 plus point league finishes.

Bloody bonus payments should have been paid to shareholders instead.

16.) 18 Aug 2023
18 Aug 2023 11:51:35
Correct JK23. The trophies speak for themselves.

17.) 18 Aug 2023
18 Aug 2023 12:02:50
JK23 - Either you’ve completely missed the point, or are simply ignoring the context of this thread. No one is debating the achievements that squad brought to the club, but what is also not debatable is that a few members offered little return on the enormous financial commitment afforded to them (Keita, Oxlade-Chamberlain) . They were overpaid, and kept around because of a general incompetence of the club in its transfer dealings. Had that money been recovered, we may have had more money to offer a competitive wage to a world class player (Liverpool clearly don’t care about transfer fees - it’s wages that are the problem), who may have then helped us to have 2 PL titles, 2CLs and the rest. Keita and Oxlade-Chamberlain offered close to absolutely zero towards the brilliant exploits of the rest of the squad.

18.) 18 Aug 2023
18 Aug 2023 12:23:34
Lowe I’ll be honest I didn’t read all of the thread as I was rushed this morning mate.

In regards to missing the point I might have missed yours but my reply was my point so I believe I’ve not missed anything in conjunction with my own opinion.

In regards to Keita and Ox no one can argue that they don’t contribute as much as they should have.

Not sure if true though but were both given extended contracts on better wages during their time here or were they the agreed wages and contracts when initially signing them?

19.) 18 Aug 2023
18 Aug 2023 12:39:17
Sorry just to clarify my point. The club decided to put all the squad of big incentivised bonus’s depending on success.

The squad did what was asked for them and I believe the club got it nailed on. Why pay players unless they are producing the success on the pitch.

Only minor Problem was whilst 90% of the squad were contributing massively on the pitch the other 10% were also collecting the bonuses off it.

20.) 18 Aug 2023
18 Aug 2023 12:55:53
OliRed in a round about way that was my point. You made the issue far better than I did.

21.) 18 Aug 2023
18 Aug 2023 13:58:09
No, Rigby, that's not what I'm saying and hence my lack of qualification doesn't come into it (thank goodness) .

Fyi, what Olired said (better) .

22.) 18 Aug 2023
18 Aug 2023 14:34:14
delvecs, what did you mean when you posted 'I don't subscribe to the theory that Klopp has credit in the bank. He's used what he has earned (same goes for Salah while I'm at it) '.

23.) 18 Aug 2023
18 Aug 2023 14:50:14
He uses the credit he has earned, is my point Rigby (with the tactical mistakes and seemingly excessive influence he has)

He shouldn't be deified for life for the extraordinary contribution he has made (the In Klopp We Trust brigade) .

Hope this is clear to you now. Everyone is bored and has moved on. Do so too.

24.) 18 Aug 2023
18 Aug 2023 18:00:32
delvecs, how can he use the credit he has earned if he has none left?
Imo, Klopp and Salah both still have credit in the bank. Their achievements grant them this, from my point of view.
If you want to do what Coutts did to Farage, that's ok but you can't sack Klopp or drop Salah.

25.) 18 Aug 2023
18 Aug 2023 21:14:22
Interesting thread. Would love a review of Edwards overall Liverpool input from you Ed 1. I'm kinda on your side due to wages debacle. Know your probably too busy but most fans I know see him as some sort of demi god.

{Ed001's Note - I will do something on it when I get a chance mate.}