16 Mar 2023 15:11:05
I feel the club is at a juncture similar to when we lost The Champions League Final to Real Madrid and we had Karius in goal. After that, we bought Alisson and Van Dijk and I can't remember who else. The point is we addressed the obvious weaknesses we had and started winning things. I hope LFC and the owners do the same thing now and address the midfield and any other area Klopp thinks needs strenghening.
1.) 16 Mar 2023
16 Mar 2023 15:24:44
We bought Vvd the Jan before mate. I think it was Alison and Fab and Naby might have arrived.
2.) 16 Mar 2023
16 Mar 2023 15:34:34
We should buy Coutinho off Villa and sell him to Barcelona again.
3.) 16 Mar 2023
16 Mar 2023 17:53:49
Thom, you never know. That could work a treat a second time around BUT who do we sign since Ali and Vvd are already here?
4.) 16 Mar 2023
16 Mar 2023 19:34:42
I totally agree OP.
As I’ve said a couple of times recently the first squad we built in the Klopp era is now in decline and we are seeing the start of the new squad - Diaz, Nunes, Gakpo, Elliot, Carvalho, Bajcetic. There is nothing ‘wrong’ in a squad declining - it happens to all Brest squads - aging, other teams improving, teams adapting styles to combat the dominant squad.
For about three years each year has seen some of us want mass changes - a couple of years back it was defenders when our four ‘first choice ‘ defenders had longterm injuries. Last season it was midfielders and then forwards when Sadio and Mo were seemingly getting ‘itchy feet’. This year there ave been one or two whispers that we might need midfielders.
Of course there is a lot of talk about the need to buy large numbers of players - obviously all world class and obviously all very, very expensive. I think those thinking this is going to happen in the July window are probably in for an angst ridden summer.
The thing that seems obvious to me is that for the past couple of windows Klopp’s public statements have played down the need for (major) change within the squad but that this has changed in recent weeks. The feeling I get is that - by our previous activity in windows - that this window will be different. Personally I see the change as being prompted by either Klopp being told he will have funds or (perhaps ‘and’ too) Klopp starting his exit strategy, a sort of public ‘back me or I’m off’ message. I sincerely hope it’s the former and not the latter. He is one of the top half dozen managers in the world and has had us consistently playing our best football over 2 or 3 seasons since the 1980’s. He’s done it with one squad and I think he can do it with a new squad. I’d love to see him given the real opportunity to give it a real crack.
I suspect if he is given the backing to try we will see a couple of ‘big name’ signings in midfield and maybe a promising youngster and a ‘big name centre back. Anyway, just my current thoughts and hopefully a starting point for people to put their own thoughts about what we are hoping / expecting to happen.
{Ed025's Note - when you say there is nothing wrong with a squad declining WDW, dont you think thats a sign of poor management and a lack of forward thinking?, the great teams refresh on a regular basis and not wait until the rot has already set in mate..
5.) 16 Mar 2023
16 Mar 2023 21:06:32
To stop a squad from regressing you need to be bringing in probably 3 players each season who can come into the team and not be a significant drop in quality. Since the 18-19 summer we have at most been bringing in 2 players who fit that mould, in the 19-20 season we only signed kids and backups. We are now seeing the consequences of this policy with a squad that is ageing and and lacking in quality.
{Ed025's Note - spot on for me thunderbird..
6.) 16 Mar 2023
16 Mar 2023 21:09:47
25 - I think that's unfair mate. They refreshed by bringing in Nunez, Carvalho and Gakpo. As far as we can tell from ed2 and ed1, the opportunity was there for Tchouameni or an alternative but Klopp decided not to. So the forward thinking was there and has happened already with the forward line, but they messed up by not bringing in a fresh face for the midfield.
I'm not convinced at all that a new midfielder would have solved the issues we've had this season because I lay that at the feet of our forward line and how inconsistent they have been with their press. It is a totally new unit.
But notwithstanding that, the point is that the forward thinking was there but they made a bad decision along the way. I'm not sure that means poor management and letting the rot set in.
{Ed025's Note - but is it really faith?, you had the lack of centre halves the season before which cost you, then the midfield debacle and you think that was not down to poor planning and foresight mate?, keeping hold of players who were not fit or good enough has cost you big time for me mate, just an opinion of course..
7.) 16 Mar 2023
16 Mar 2023 21:28:02
Spot on 25, it’s a complete rubbish show from Klopp and the gang. Probably not helped by John Henry’s tightly zipped purse. Still Klopp signed the contract so can’t be that bad can it.
8.) 16 Mar 2023
16 Mar 2023 22:27:00
i wonder what tablets Jurgen takes for his Headaches! as everywhere he looks there are big problems for him whether it's injuries, upcoming transfers, loss of form, CL qualification, league position, press interviews etc.
9.) 16 Mar 2023
16 Mar 2023 21:39:52
It doesn’t really matter Ed all of this will be a distant memory when we get the players we need in July and the core squad are fit and firing again.
We will be blitzing the league again and all will be back to normal with the world.
{Ed025's Note - for your sake i hope you do BP, a lot will depend on your recruitment though mate, but dont forget that the other big fish will be spending squillions as well mate....and everton may well have a resurgence too.. :)
10.) 16 Mar 2023
16 Mar 2023 22:15:35
@Ed025, with hindsight, I agree that there has been poor forward planning.
I think there has been a (very good and long time coming) shift in club policy best epitomised by Lijnders (at least I think it was him who said it first pre-season) that the club’s recruitment policy is now one probable first team starter per window and recruitment of the potentially best youths that match the profile of players we want. If we can role forward - say another three years it will be a case of ‘we might not need’ the marquee player if Pitulaga, Davies, Ramsey, Bradley, Beck, Chambers, Quansah, Bajcetic, Morton, Clarkson, Elliot, Jones, Carvalho, Clark, Doak, Kobe-Doherty, Gordon, Stewart, Frauendorf, Cannonier, Figueroa etc kick on - and, yess I accept they all won’t but if fifty percent do we will be saving literally hundreds of millions and the first team squad will have a strong continuity to it.
I think the fault has been a lack of interim planning. Again, with hindsight I would have bought two midfielders (late 20’s, reliable and relatively injury free) last summer to help tide us over until a couple of the young lads (particularly in midfield) were ready and could be shielded from some of th s##t storm that has happened this season. Arthur might @ctually have helped a bit if he could ever get on the pitch. Obviously the mids injuries at the start of the season didn’t help, and we couldn’t sell some of the midfielders for love nor money, but really the other stuff - tiredness (mental and physical) from last season, short pre-season, World Cup etc - are excuses and not reasons as they were known factors long before the end of last season.
On the plus side - the results of the shift in policy seems to have legs (unlike our midfield eh? ) . Last season out front three was all 30 or over and two of our 3 back-ups were never going to make the starting team - Big Div and Taki, with Jota being the exception. Next season, Mo, aside, we will have Diaz, Gakpo, Nunez who will all be 23 / 24 and Jota who will be 26. That’s a solid base for the next 3 or 4 years
When all is said and done the club has made mistakes but, objectively, they are understandable as the shift in policy was a novel approach by the club. I think it is som3thing worth persisting with and hopefully the midfield will look a whole lot better come the start of next season. Like said a while back, I’m over this season but am looking forward to next season and the following season even more. The front three will be in their prime and we’ll have had three windows to have sorted the midfield and the defence.
{Ed025's Note - i think 3 players are needed WDW but they have to be of excellent quality, jude and A another for midfield and a centre half, there is not a lot wrong with the rest of it imo mate..
11.) 16 Mar 2023
16 Mar 2023 23:07:35
Do you think Jude will arrive 25 mate? There’s lots of teams chomping at the bit, the telegraph now reporting them lot in Salford will enter the race to sign him.
12.) 16 Mar 2023
16 Mar 2023 22:57:19
Ed025, hindsight is a wonderful thing. It gives you exceptional clarity of sight, with the only problem being that you're looking back at something you can never change. It's okay to say "poor planning and foresight" now but what was wrong with it when we were winning those titles and were clearly the best club team in Europe for at least 2-3 years. Or was it just luck? And how do you go out and get your 2-3 major signings when you have given the majority of your team new 5 year contract extensions? You know very well that this club has never done what the others do in going out and buying players right, left and center, ending up with 40-50 players on the payroll and then spraying them out on loans, all over the Continent.
Nobody could have foreseen the fall off the cliff the club has gone through in a matter of less than a year.
{Ed025's Note - i get that ArAy, but getting to the top of the tree is not the main thing mate...its staying there, imo the likes of gomez and matip should have been upgraded when it became apparent they were just not good enough and sold for decent fees, and a blind man could see the midfield needed refreshing last year but you kept hold of the old brigade and low and behold they went stale like a week old loaf, then you offer new contracts to some of them....unbelievable geoff, so yes i put that down to poor planning mate..
13.) 16 Mar 2023
16 Mar 2023 23:37:31
Looking at Klopp last night I honestly think that this season has broke him. I wouldn't be surprised if he walked at the end of the season.
14.) 16 Mar 2023
16 Mar 2023 23:41:39
Absolutely spot on ed25.
15.) 17 Mar 2023
17 Mar 2023 06:37:22
No hindsight required, the powers that be should have read this forum. At least now we are all finally in agreement that we need to strengthen heavily in the summer.
16.) 17 Mar 2023
17 Mar 2023 00:12:43
@Ed025, in order to ‘stay there’ you do actually have to get to the top of the tree though. The first part was done, mostly, on fist pumping emotion and the tone was set by that. Given we had newish owners who were inexperienced in matters footy and a manager who clearly thrives on emotion it’s not (again with hindsight) a complete surprise that the second part (the keeping us at the top) was a bit shaky.
I honestly think we are still a work in progress - phase 1 to phase 2 (squad regeneration) obviously could be better but it’s a very good opportunity to learn and, hopefully, we will have a smoother transition from squad 2 to squad 3 when it eventually happens and all things being equal.
Enjoying the chat on this thread by the way ?.
{Ed025's Note - I get what you are saying WDW and in an ideal world that would be a seamless transition and not in phases. Look I don’t know how the finances work mate and how much was afforded to klopp but I think the recruitment could have been better. Saying that I still think to have the best manager in the league and all the talk of wanting him gone is total crap. But this summer will be massive..
17.) 17 Mar 2023
17 Mar 2023 09:57:29
To be the best you have to train and play like you are the 2nd best.
Sadly when you are at the top it’s a lot harder to stay there than it is to get there.
18.) 17 Mar 2023
17 Mar 2023 12:06:43
I like Ed025 a lot more these days. The squad management/ planning has been poor since winning the league. No two ways about it. Whether it all falls at the feet of Klopp or not, he has to be complicit.
19.) 18 Mar 2023
18 Mar 2023 16:15:55
Awk Ed25 I think our biggest problems have been injuries and then over reliance on those players
You mentioned the season we lost our Cbs - we lost our 3 starting cbs to freak injuries. Has that happened to other teams? What would happen to City if they lost Diaz, Lapworth and Stones? I mean they weren't great the season they lost Laporte were they?
Awk in fairness that was just a freak happening, can't plan for that but I do agree the squad management has been very poor
I mean Ox, Keita and Bobby have been allowed to run their contracts down? How in is that allowed? Should have been sold seasons ago. Let's face it, Bobby hasn't been great a few seasons now, Ox never recovered from his injuries and Keita? Poor attitude, poor injury record - yet we keep and even I think we offered him a new contract?
Then we have the midfield debacle this season. Yeah, Klopp thought we had enough, let's look:
- Ox and Keita: given the minutes they've played in recent seasons were they honestly options to begin with?
- Thiago: does tend to miss a fair few games - again, could we really count on him all season
- Jones: bit like Thiago tbh and still very hit and miss in games. Could we really rely on him for a full season?
- Fabinho: Honestly, usually fit and plays well - who honestly saw his form drop off a cliff like it has?
-Hendo: again has missed a fair few games in recent seasons and age maybe catching up. Hit and miss this season but usually dependable enough in previous seasons
- Milner: not getting any younger and a useful utility man, not a starting midfielder capable of playing a lot of games
That was 7 for 3 spots. On paper that seems plenty but reading the above, it wasn't really was it?
The midfield should have been invested in, in recent seasons, it wasn't. That was a mistake
Awk it's clear as day that injuries and then reliance on injury prone players has been our downfall
The medical dept needs sorted, no doubt. This level of injuries is ridiculous- why? Root cause analysis?
Then, manage the squad. Those that keep picking up niggles and injuries - sell and do not overprice, let's face it, they are hardly in their prime are they?
That's what has cost us, injuries and squad management. It's this that needs to improve tbh
Would that have led to us doing better recent seasons? If Ox and Keita had been sold and replaced a few seasons ago, would the midfield have been refreshed ok?
If Salah had been rotated last season, would he have been better? Looked burnt out after AFCON
Could VVDs minutes have been managed better after his return from injury? Again, played far too many games and form has been hit and miss
Awk all ifs and buts I know, but just comes back to the level of injuries we sustain, and the management of those players in particular for me tbh.