1.) 06 Jan 2018
06 Jan 2018 13:39:19
If it’s a malicious aligation then absolutely it should come with repercussions, however how are they going to prove that?! We could all easily say it was to deflect from what he’d just done, perhaps it was, but there’s no proof. I hope it wasn’t malicious as that would be an extremely distasteful and damaging thing to do. He I’ll make his submissions and the fa will have to determine if any wrong doing occurred.

2.) 06 Jan 2018
06 Jan 2018 14:30:23
What Hoagie needs to do is the right thing. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he didn't quite understand the Portuguese swear words. When clarified all he should do is apologize for the misunderstanding and retract his claim of racism. case closed and we move on.

{Ed025's Note - i think that may happen pete..

3.) 06 Jan 2018
06 Jan 2018 14:39:58
All depends on what holgate has said he heard and the wording of it there’s pretty clear footage of it so if what bobby has said is nothing near what holgate is saying he could be in trouble .

4.) 06 Jan 2018
06 Jan 2018 14:53:26
You’d need a lot of evidence to prove that it was malicious, and it would be hard to prove. It’s also a dangerous route to go down, penalising someone who reported something that they may have believed was genuine at that time. Tempers were frayed and Holgate is not the brightest penny in the fountain, so it’s a perfect combination for a messy situation, it’s clear from all of the replays that Firmino didn’t say that particular word and the ref clearly didn’t hear it as he would have sent Firmino off and the ref was right in the middle of it.

5.) 06 Jan 2018
06 Jan 2018 14:58:21
Considering his proximity to the ref, who didn't react, and the body language of the Everton players as they were restraining Holgate, it seems unlikely to me that Firmino said anything racist.

That being said, I'm hard pressed to imagine Holgate, or any other footballer, being both nasty and quick thinking enough to make a malicious accusation of racism to try and avoid trouble for a foul.

Most likely, Firmino said X, and Holgate heard Y.

Do I want to see Holgate punished for making a mistake? Not really, to be honest. Racism still lingers in the game a little, and we don't need an abused player thinking to himself: "What if the FA finds no evidence that he abused me and decides I made it up and suspends me like they did with Holgate? " as he contemplates whether or not to make a complaint.

Now of course if it does come out that it was malicious and Holgate never actually thought for one second Firmino had racially abused him, then I'd obviously want the FA to sanction him. But as above, I don't it's likely he did that.

{Ed025's Note - good post that SR..

6.) 06 Jan 2018
06 Jan 2018 14:58:28
If (and big IF) Firmino said anything remotely racist then he should get what is coming to him. However, I have a much bigger problem here. The ref was the one who stopped Bobbie initially from knocking the block off Colgate's face to begin with therefore, he was in perfect position to hear whatever Bobbie swore at him.

From lip reading, Firmino called Colgate "Loco Filhu de Puta/ o (like Un Fou Fils de Pute in French) which translates to Crazy S. O. B. In this context, he simply called Colgate a coward which is exactly what he is for shoving a guy in the back with no way of of Bobbie defending himself. Only cowards do that. And if that is deemed racist then, there will be no players left in the PL cos English say WAY worse to refs in the PL.

Now the ref may not have heard everything afterwards and we shall see what happens BUT he was there to hear the whole thing and if he did hear any slurs, Bobbie would have been off. For right now as I see it, I'm with Belfast red. Colgate may have just made that crap up in the moment just to save him from getting a yellow or red and if he did that, he should fully punished for assassinating another player's character after endangering said player's safety which is what started this to begin with. We shall see.

{Ed025's Note - believing that in an intense moment in a match that a player can think that if he accuses someone of racial abuse he will not get a card is absolute tripe, the thing is brover is that you are bright enough to know that yet are making up stories to vindicate your sickening agenda, you should be very proud of yourself mate..

7.) 06 Jan 2018
06 Jan 2018 15:00:38
Incidentally, I saw a few people on Twitter (yeah, I know) saying that Holgate has a Portuguese grandfather or something and may actually speak some Portuguese.

I thought his ancestry was Jamaican?

{Ed025's Note - i aint got a clue mate..

8.) 06 Jan 2018
06 Jan 2018 15:40:35
Have to say watched this over and over and when holgate reacts jonjoe is is right beside bobby and there is no reaction from Kenny at all so I’d say this should be wrapped up quickly .

9.) 06 Jan 2018
06 Jan 2018 15:46:49
Sorry, Ed25 BUT I have NO agenda against anyone. You have an opinion and that is fine. I am not making up stories in my head or anything like that. In my post, I made an assessment based on the info we all currently have and made caveats as well to that effect. You may think my premise is far-fetched and that is your opinion BUT unlike you, I am not ruling ANYTHING out. Why? Cos I have seen the exact premise with Holgate happen a lot in the U. S in sports or in the society as I am American and very consciously, culturally and socially aware of racism (it is very complicated) if they feel they are desperate and how people play that card cos I am black. No conspiracy here, mate. That is fact.

My experiences are part of who I am as I have seen people stoop as low as dirt to do such things. Not saying Holgate did this. Just saying it cannot be ruled out IMO and by the way, I am not the only one to have this opinion, by the way. And Yes, I am proud of myself indeed, for exposing myself to multiple experiences that has shaped my way of thinking esp. where issues of race come up, like it or not. God bless, my friend!

{Ed025's Note - i just think you are pre-judging holgate in your original post brover, you must know as well as anybody that a reaction like mason gave was never a planned event the shock on his face tells you that, now i dont know what was said but i will not judge either of them until the matter is resolved, there are too many people coming up with theories which are in essence just guesses, lets just hope it was a big mistake for everyones sake mate..

10.) 06 Jan 2018
06 Jan 2018 17:23:32
I have my thoughts on what happened after watching this over and over again but I don't intend to pass judgement on my theories.
What I will say is that having a Jamaican father and an Irish mother has made incidents like this a rather raw subject and if firmino has said anything racist I expect the club get rid asap despite being a favourite of mine.

However, being someone who played football to a pretty decent level and having had racism thrown at myself personally in this country from the age of 11 I'd say I would be appalled if there is no substance to holgates claim.

The proximity to the other players but more importantly the referee should make this a clear cut case not just from the refs witness statement but also if you watch the position of firmino he is literally speaking into the refs microphone.

Again, I am trying to be neutral but racism has affected myself and so many of my family members (not only black but Irish too) that for someone to lie about it is just as harmful as someone perpetrating it. So I'd hope holgate got just as much of a ban for being found lying as firmino would get for being found guilty. Only I'd hope firmino was nowhere near the football club I love.

{Ed001's Note - what if Holgate was just mistaken? It was in the heat of the moment, the lad could easily have misheard.}

11.) 06 Jan 2018
06 Jan 2018 18:01:22
Again I'm getting in to the realms of accusing now but it seems he is saying a very specific word was said by firmino when he is discussing that with the referee. As has been said holgate REACTS to something. At the moment it's alleged that firmino says this word holgate is stood perfectly still and is looking right at him. Like I say racism is up there as one of the most disgusting ways a person can choose to act so in my opinion you don't make accusations for someone to be accused of that if there's the slightest chance you're mistaken ed001.

12.) 06 Jan 2018
06 Jan 2018 18:01:35
Whatever happens to Firmino doesn’t alter the fact that Holgate should be punished for 1) the push and 2) man handling the ref.
On the push, I’ve heard some saying we’re over-reacting. Think about this, it’s common for young kids and disabled fans who sit near to the pitch. What if Firmino putting his hand a bout to save himself had gouged a young kids eye out? Holgate should face a long ban regardless of what Firmino said. The 2 incidents are totally seperate. The FA cannot condone that behaviour or indeed man-handling the ref.