05 Jul 2023 16:30:35
Don't shoot the messenger guys, but. Apparently nuno Santo the manager of Al itihad wants fabinho as he likes his versatility, can play dm, cb and left back.

1.) 05 Jul 2023
05 Jul 2023 16:41:52
If they sell him, LFC must have an interest in another DM. Lavia cannot fill the whole gap yet and the expectations will kill him.

2.) 05 Jul 2023
05 Jul 2023 16:45:03
I think its safe to assume that most Saudi teams want any top level / big name 28+ player who may be deemed "subject to requirements" at their respective top tier European club.

3.) 05 Jul 2023
05 Jul 2023 18:15:15
Im all for a clear out for the following reasons.

a lot of players clearly lost Klopp's trust last season. Including Fabinho (and for good reason in that case)

A lot of new faces are required, then, and to be able to sign the best, you need to be able to promise them sufficient minutes

If you're promising new players sufficient minutes, that will be at the expense of established first team players (for example, Lavia wouldn't sign for Liverpool to sit on the bench when he can sign for Arsenal and play, say, 70% of minutes next to Rice) .

Likewise, established stars like Fabinho won't want to stay at the club and not play in an ideal world. Same with Thiago: what is best for the club is that we have all these experienced pros together to help settle in the younger players - but again, that is not necessarily what Thiago or Fabinho for example may envisage for themselves at this stage of their careers

Even if the players were happy staying and collecting their wages, the club will look to move anyone with significant wages out of the club if they're only going to play 30% or less of available minutes (a la Thiago), as the wages of someone like Fabinho and Thiago off the bill will free up contracts for potentially 3-4 younger players, or at least free up available transfer funds this summer and next

These players also will be much less guaranteed a high quality contract in another year's time, especially if they spend a lot of time on the bench this season

This summer may be something of a unique opportunity for some of our established stars to receive these final lucrative contracts, and indeed, it may be the best opportunity for the club to receive a decent fee for them too. From a purely business perspective, it makes sense in a lot of ways - and the club, and Klopp, have been nothing if not consistently, arguably infuriatingly, pragmatic in this regard for the past 8 years

Ultimately, Klopp is nearing the end of his contract too. And perhaps he feels the best opportunity to bring in the best young talent is now - so he can guarantee them at least two years of working together. If he doesn't sign an extension next year, convincing world class talent to join the club when he only has one year left on his deal may be harder. Klopp remains the single biggest draw at Liverpool as a coach, and single best negotiating figure we have at the club in terms of his ability to persuade players to join. This summer may be the peak of his ability to use his charisma and reputation to draw these types of players to the club

Continuity is so important. But like it or not, as everyone points out incessantly here, if the club had been able to navigate the transition of the squad more successfully over the past few years - for instance, if Ox and Keita had had clubs bidding for them last season - this transition period would not be so brutal

On continuity though, the club is still likely to hold on to VvD, Alisson, Trent, Henderson, Robertson, Salah, and a plenty of the younger players who have been at the club some time - so from a welcoming new players perspective, there will still be plenty of big personalities to help people adjust / motivate them.

As it is, with all the above and many other points I'm sure I could list, this summer is likely to be not just a summer of sweeping incomings, but also something of a clear-out. I wouldn't be surprised to see Matip, Kostas, Fab and Thiago all leave, on top of Phillips. I always felt like part of the logic behind bringing Jörg Schmadtke in was as much for his ability to quite coldly move players on this summer, as it was for his ability to bring players in. Someone to come in and have the hard conversations with players he doesn't have a personal relationship / attachment to. Players that, as I say, let Klopp down somewhat last year.

And finally, even with all these changes, in some respect the starting 11 is unlikely to drastically change next season. At least, not immediately. Even if they brought in a LB/ LCB, a CB/ RB, and Lavia say, the most likely starting 11 against Chelsea and on into September / October will have Alisson, Trent, Konate, VvD, Robertson, Henderson, Mac Allister, Szobo, Salah, Gakpo/ Nunez, Diaz/ Jota in it -- so only two or so significant changes. Then, with Europa League etc., there is a low-stress environment to integrate the wider influx of players into the team.

4.) 05 Jul 2023
05 Jul 2023 18:57:18
I would sell Fabinho and Thiago but not Henderson. Certainly we would need a DM to come in under these circumstances.

5.) 05 Jul 2023
05 Jul 2023 19:28:01
I would sell all 3 and bring in 2 more cost more in transfer fees but the savings on wages would help go a long way to pay for it in the long run.

6.) 05 Jul 2023
05 Jul 2023 19:32:08
I can see one of Fabinho or Thiago moving on.
Not Hendo.
The most likeliest being Thiago due to his contract, wages, injury history and there being at least 2 other midfielders able to play that left sided midfield position.

7.) 05 Jul 2023
05 Jul 2023 20:21:13
Can’t see Fabinho going. Also can’t start next season with a full new midfield they will need time to gel and get used to klopps tactics. Madness if you ask me.

8.) 05 Jul 2023
05 Jul 2023 22:35:08
@Grino - what’s to say that the wage bill will go down?

9.) 05 Jul 2023
05 Jul 2023 22:46:02
If Fab went i'd have no problem trusting in Bajcetic and Lavia. Both top talents. Old enough, good enough and all that.

10.) 05 Jul 2023
05 Jul 2023 20:24:12
Fab is going nowhere.

11.) 05 Jul 2023
05 Jul 2023 23:40:24
We need to stop holding onto the past. Fabs and Thiago have been great for the most part, the latter especially. But both players still have some value. Thiago will be back to Barcelona for a free next season if he doesn’t go now and another season like the last for Fabs and we’ll be lucky to get a tenner for him. Almost every big team in the world sells their good players who are not in the first team week in week out or players on the decline. For all Klopps brilliance, we seem to not do this much anymore and rely on selling the youngsters with potential to raise funds. If we buy a CDM and CB, I’d be content to see see Fabs, Matip and Thiago leave.

12.) 06 Jul 2023
06 Jul 2023 00:03:20
Holding onto Henderson, Fabinho and / or Thiago isn't holding onto the past.

Others have mentioned it, as have I, but it would be absolute madness to be letting go of two of that group. I would only do it if we absolutely had to balance the books. otherwise I would much rather keep the experience at the club as we transition the new players and give Jones et al another season to adjust.

13.) 06 Jul 2023
06 Jul 2023 00:22:53
Agreed I would not get rid of Henderson, that’s why I didn’t mention him, as he has all the experience, ability and leadership we need in droves. Thiago is talented and experienced yes, but he’s not much use as an example to younger players if he’s only playing half our games due to injury, so he’d be my first pick to leave. Fab’s is just down to money in all honesty. I still think he can get back on form but what if I’m wrong? We might get £30m for him even after that last season if we sell now, plenty towards a replacement, but we certainly won’t if he stays another year, then we have a less valuable asset and the issue of his replacement becomes more pressing than it is now.
I do see your point Faith, and experience is important but it isn’t everything. Ultimately talent and Just ask Alan Hansan. There’s enough in the squad I’m with Ali, Adrian, VVD, Matip, Hendo and Salah.

14.) 06 Jul 2023
06 Jul 2023 05:27:26
@Westwood, I don’t think it’s a case of holding onto the past. In my opinion it’s more a case of ensuring the future before we let some of the players go.

15.) 06 Jul 2023
06 Jul 2023 06:30:54
@westwood666 - Thiago has been great? Are you sure, personally I think he’s been pretty much a waste of money. Don’t be blinded by his ‘world class’ reputation, he didn’t improve the team at all apart from the occasional fancy pass.

16.) 06 Jul 2023
06 Jul 2023 07:44:52
West derby thaigo is on about £200k Fabinho £180k Henderson £140k. With the players we are linked with if we get 2 more midfielders in likely to be less than thaigo’s wage alone. £27m a season for them 3 I really like thaigo think he is class but he cannot stay fit but last season when he was fit he played miles better than the other 2 who looked like the league was just to fast for them now. If we signed new Dm no way any of them 3 are regular starters so if we can cash in and get a little transfer fee for all three of them I say do it and use next to build and to push on for the following season to challenging again because we are no way challenge city with them 3 in midfield. And I don’t care what they have done in the past Henderson has been on the decline ever since a league title season every year performing worse. To stay at the top you have got to be ruthless and we have been the total opposite given out deals to players that don’t need new deals let players run down contracts so we get no money back. Chelsea under Roman would never give over 30s 4 year’s contracts on massive wages because you end up stuck with them this is not the Spanish league or the German league the premier league as by far more competitive and you cannot have a team full of over 30s. If we had looked after the squad better we would be in the champions league next season and would have been able to compete for the signing of Bellingham because we would not have need such a massive rebuild.
Lesson need to be learnt.

17.) 06 Jul 2023
06 Jul 2023 08:48:56
I won't shoot the messenger but he might be beheaded.

18.) 06 Jul 2023
06 Jul 2023 08:59:39
It's not fantasy football or football manager. You're talking about letting go three well-respected, senior players, including the captain from the same position, on top of Milner, vice captain, in the same window, and replacing them for a 19 year old with no dsicipline. No thanks.

19.) 06 Jul 2023
06 Jul 2023 09:17:37
This isn’t football manager where you only look at the performances on the pitch when deciding on recruitment.

These are real people with real personalities and you should never underestimate how much impact that can have on the entire squad. Having just lost a model pro like Milly we should be holding on to Hendo at all costs. He’s a great leader and a great role model for the younger players. By all accounts he is a massive influence on knitting the squad together.

Thiago rates himself too much in my opinion and makes it harder for other players to play their game because they have to cover for him too much. I wouldn’t be surprised if some in the team think he’s a big time Charlie, he just hasn’t done enough to earn their respect. Selling him now would be a good move.

Fabs has been the best DM in the league for 4 out of the last 5 years. I’d give him at least another season to see if his drop in form was more down to the team not functioning rather than him being on the decline.

20.) 06 Jul 2023
06 Jul 2023 10:27:38
Beckers Pecker - agree with all of that TBH. Fabinho has been great for us, mostly, at 29 I'm prepared to give him another chance to see if he can get his form back. Hendo has also been fantastic over the years and I'd like to see him stay with us and use him sparingly as we did with Milner. Thiago - failed experiment for me.

21.) 06 Jul 2023
06 Jul 2023 10:54:48
Johnnyr typo on my part. I had meant to say the former had been great, looking at Fabs more than Thiago. He has talent, but these ‘tempo controlling’ players never seem to do well in the premier league for good reason.

22.) 06 Jul 2023
06 Jul 2023 10:55:22
Personally I love watching Thiago. In my opinion he is the most gifted midfielder at the club. He makes football look easy. Agree his injury record is a problem. Then I suppose if a significant offer came in for him the funds and saving on salary could be used for a younger more reliable midfielder.

23.) 06 Jul 2023
06 Jul 2023 10:58:50
Thiago rates himself too much and others have to cover for him? That's some take.

Despite his lack of availability due to injury, he was our best midfielder last season in terms of pressing, tackling and effort. He was the only player that was aggressive when he played.

And yes, I agree that the experiment has failed. But that is om Klopp and Lijnders.

Hendo on the other hand runs about, shouts and makes 1 or less tackles per game and captained our worst performances last season. But he is described as a model pro and knits the squad together.

24.) 06 Jul 2023
06 Jul 2023 14:47:15
Agree with most, Becker, but your take on Thiago is odd. He's extremely popular, seen as intelligent, a super nice guy and great at helping others settle. He also works his socks off and is probably the best midfielder we have.

25.) 06 Jul 2023
06 Jul 2023 14:47:32
I guess it’s a game of opinions Fly?

When I watch Thiago I see a guy with massive technical ability but zero football brain. He has no idea where to position himself on the pitch, especially in transition which is why he’s constantly making sliding tackles from the wrong side and giving free kicks away.

In possession he wants to strut about, rolling the ball under his foot, looking for Hollywood passes. The opposition have noticed it and they target him, which they should. Put Thiago under pressure when he has the ball and rather than playing the simple pass he will give up possession at least 7/ 10 times.

Technically he is the best midfield player we have and he has had a few good games where I’d hoped he’d turned a corner. In reality though, even with all of his ability he is totally ineffective and our performances and results improved after he got injured last season.

With Hendo I’m not even talking about his influence on the pitch. My point was, don’t underestimate his influence on the other players off the pitch, which in many ways is far more important. That’s how you make the team better than the sum of its parts.

26.) 06 Jul 2023
06 Jul 2023 15:42:26
Over the next 11 months, all or most of the following players need to be moved on, and their replacements brought in or lined up (i. e. during the current and next two transfer windows) :

Hendo, Thiago, Fabinho, Salah, Matip, Gomez, Robertson, Virgil, and Trent if he doesn't sign a new contract.

LFC legends, mostly. But their accomplishments were 4 years ago. A long time in this sport. And time waits for no man.

27.) 06 Jul 2023
06 Jul 2023 15:52:22
Thiago is one of the most skillful midfielders of the last decade. Lewandowski called him a magician.

Every club in the world wanted him when he left Bayern.

If he failed here, it was due to the circumstances, the personnel, the coaches, and the tactics.

28.) 06 Jul 2023
06 Jul 2023 23:19:36
I still think Thiago is class. Availability due to injuries I agree is a big concern but I think when he has been fit and playing, he generally has played well - always looking to be heavily involved, always driving the team forward, a touch of class and can play the pass most others can't.

I understand those being open to selling him due to injuries but it's disappointing to see so many people dissing his quality.

29.) 07 Jul 2023
07 Jul 2023 10:26:39
Red67 - that list is an abomination. they nearly won everything a year ago, so God knows where you have 4 years from. It just smacks of disrespect. Also, you have to transition, not wholesale.

Re-Thiago. My goodness. You don't know what you've got til it's gone. he is the most clinical, aggressive forward passer from central midfield of a generation. He has an exceptional football brain (no football brain is surely a parody comment? ) and rarely gives up possession. Our performances improved when we put an extra body in midfield; Thiago being unavailable was unrelated.

30.) 07 Jul 2023
07 Jul 2023 10:40:05
Get rid of 9 first team squad members in this and the January window, four or five of whom are regular starters where do you imagine we’d get the £ 400 - 500m to replace them?

31.) 08 Jul 2023
08 Jul 2023 17:25:45
So what is the alternative?

Give a bunch of players in their thirties new long term contracts? How did that work out with Hendo?

Or let them simply walk out of the club on a free?

And yes, all the players in that list, with the exception of Trent, peaked 3 to 5 years ago.

The only one on the list with the footballing brain and skill to potentially maintain his level playing into his mid-thirties is Thiago, who is an exceptional talent.