04 Feb 2016 22:37:43
Ed2, a question if I may and if you have time. I've read a lot on here about the pan European league but how will it actually all work? What happens to the structure of the national leagues that don't join. Which British teams are up for it etc

Isn't it going to ruin football in some respects? The cost of following your team is going to become astronomical and simply unaffordable for most

Personally I don't like the idea.

{Ed002's Note - There are always going to be changes Tom and time is getting close for major changes.

The matter of a breakaway pan-European league remains very much an on-going issue with regular discussions on the matter between a dozen or more clubs.

Without going in to too much detail: (a) A number of clubs take the opportunity to meet and discuss various issues including changes in rules, club versus country issues, television and other media rights, the power of UEFA, exploitation issues for new technology streams, etc.. The meetings were annually but now they happen two and sometimes three times a year. There was a meeting in December – where there was a discussion about the state of FIFA, the situation with UEFA and a so far unpublished claim from a retired referee that the result of a Champions League game was influenced by a third party. These discussions also always turn to the possibility and structure of a breakaway pan European league. Several are ex-G14 clubs, several are not, and some clubs decline involvement in such discussions. (b) The plan is that at some point a number of clubs would break away from their national leagues and UEFA. They accept that they would be banned from all existing club competition and the players would initially be banned from all FIFA competitions as well, but know that FIFA would be looking to negotiate in any case. It would be the end of UEFA in all probability and UEFA are very aware of this. It would also result in a restructuring of many of the national leagues. (c) The clubs would renegotiate their television and media rights, rights of distribution via other streams etc.. (d) It remains the greatest fear of UEFA and all major national authorities that one day this will happen – which has resulted in a counter-proposal being drafted by UEFA. (e) Timing wise, two very prominent clubs want it to happen as soon as possible (2018) and they have the support of a third club - but most are looking at 2022 being a good option. A few clubs are looking at 2025 to 2027 and I suspect that could end up as the reality.

There is going to be a counter-proposal backed by UEFA to try and save their own skin which is soon to be tabled. The proposal is to rename and change the format of the UEFA Champions League to make it an elite closed-shop pan-European league with a fixed number of teams – and these would be the same teams every year. It would then require the restructuring of the Europa League and the possible introduction of a lower-tier European competition. Although they have yet to flesh out the detail, on major Football Association has given their support.

If the proposal for a breakaway goes ahead, there is every likelihood that the big money from television, sponsorship etc. would go with a breakaway league. It would completely rupture the operations of UEFA and I would expect it would require national associations like the FA to restructure their leagues. Nobody wants this but it is the eventual consequence I would expect. Initially it could be that there is a single 16 team league with 2 or 3 EPL teams making the initial plunge. If I had to speculate, I would think (1) you might eventually see something like five or six EPL teams leave for two-tier pan European league - but it won't be based on the UEFA rankings; (2) the Premier League would be disbanded as an organisation; (3) the FA would restructure in to two 20 team divisions with lower leagues regionalised as they were many years ago; (4) FIFA would ban all players from the breakaway teams from International football - perhaps rescinding that position to stop FIFA breaking up as well - they don't want further issues but the troubles are not going to go away. I could also see many teams lose their professional status. I would think we are probably 10 years away from any significant move at this time.

I hold a reasonably strong view in terms of the need to restructure football in Europe in any case. For me an eventual a breakaway pan-European league would force the restructuring of many of the national leagues, possibly resulting in a British league with perhaps only a couple of professional tiers and then regionalised amateur leagues below that. Financially I do not see that so many pro sides can be sustained within the sport which, like it or not, will see more and more money going in to the highest levels of the game. Governments will ensure that grassroots sport get funding but everything in the middle (Southern, Northern, Conference, Division 2, Scottish Divisions 1-3, League of Wales will not get the funding needed to continue on any sort of professional basis.}

1.) 05 Feb 2016
05 Feb 2016 09:03:51
Thanks for for the detailed response

Are you able to say which epl sides are pushing for it and / or would be interested in joining the said pan European league? Do you know what lfcs stance on all this is?

Is it fair to say that a lot of this has been brought about from jealousy of the money being plowed into the epl? If I were to hazard a guess I'd bet it was Bayern Munich and psg that are pushing for it sooner as they are bored with the ease of their current leagues and frustrated by the lack of TV revenue etc

As mentioned I really don't like the idea. It pushed football further into being a sport for the rich and prawn sandwich brigade.

{Ed002's Note - Liverpool are not included in any of the discussions.}

2.) 05 Feb 2016
05 Feb 2016 09:24:11
ouch, that was my fear. That will likely to push us into obscurity then. Better enjoy football under the current format whilst it lasts

May have to find a new sport to follow.

3.) 05 Feb 2016
05 Feb 2016 10:09:40
Tom27

even though we are not involved in talks at present, i'd imagine when the time comes we would be involved.

Even though we are struggling at present we are still one of the biggest teams around.

{Ed002's Note - Certainly Liverpool would not be involved if anything happened in the short to medium term but by the like time for any movement things will likely be different at the club.}

4.) 05 Feb 2016
05 Feb 2016 10:10:28
Ed002 - Are there any specific reasons why Liverpool are not part of these discussions. I know Liverpool is not doing well but in terms of revenue it is still amongst the top 10 clubs.
Also, when this league eventually happens, would liverpool be a part of it by any chance?

{Ed002's Note - I am not getting in to any of the reasons why certain clubs are not included - and unless there were changes Liverpool would not be included in the short to medium term.}

5.) 05 Feb 2016
05 Feb 2016 10:18:13
Hey Ed2, Thanks for your post, it's fascinating to read and seems far more inevitable than I realised.

Just to clarify a couple of things:

1. You say Liverpool aren't involved in the discussions but that 5-6 EPL teams may be involved in a closed two-tier league. Do you think it likely that Liverpool would be one of those teams? I assume a team's inclusion would be largely influenced by financial potential and that Liverpool are in a good position in that regard.

2. Is it inevitable that the league will be a closed shop? I would have thought the FA would fight hard for some kind promotion/ relegation system because the value of the English league would plummet without it (or at least plummet less with it) .

3. If the UEFA proposal gains traction do you see the main teams remaining in national football in any capacity (Cups etc) or would it be a complete break away?

4, Finally, do you think a break away league may introduce competitive controls (revenue controls, a salary cap or a draft system for instance) or do you think it will be totally free market? I feel without some financial controls after a short while we'd see the league revert to the haves and have-nots invalidating the reason for the breakaway league in the first place.

{Ed002's Note - 1. You missed the word "eventually". Initially the expectation remains that the three Premier League sides that have been part of the discussions will be involved. 2. It is nothing to do with The FA - that is the point - it will be breaking away from the extant structure. 3. The UEFA proposal makes no change to the national or international organizations - all it changes is the number of teams in the "Champions League" and the fact that there will not be any qualification. 4. It will be the totally free market that many of the clubs want. Initially with the likely 16 teams there will be no "have nots" - the money will be well beyond anything we see now. As I have said this would force the restructuring of many of the national leagues, possibly resulting in a British league with perhaps only a couple of professional tiers and then regionalised amateur leagues below that. Financially I do not see that so many pro sides can be sustained within the sport which, like it or not, will see more and more money going in to the highest levels of the game.}

6.) 05 Feb 2016
05 Feb 2016 11:02:58
Thanks Ed2. Unless I misunderstand the situation (which is quite likely) I hope the UEFA proposal gets adopted. Although Liverpool may eventually join a full break away I think it would be the death knell of domestic football.

In a perfect world I'd like the pan-european leagues to be the top tier with the national leagues becoming the regional leagues that feed it but I expect that's naive.

{Ed002's Note - The clubs at the forefront of this are looking to rid themselves of the restrictions of UEFA so will likely reject their proposals when they make them. UEFA are trying to get buy in from each of the FAs but that will carry little influence with the clubs. UEFA will be able to force their changes but it doesn't impact any breakaway.}

7.) 05 Feb 2016
05 Feb 2016 12:27:28
Ed would teams from the top tier British league be able to gain promotion to the breakaway league or would the breakaway league be like the NFL and NBA with no teams being relegated?

{Ed002's Note - This has been discussed and initially there is no intention of having promotion. Perhaps at a much later date when their is a second tier.}