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17 Jun 2018 07:17:17
A discussion about VAR.

I know a lot of people here are not convinced by it but it is an idea which is growing on me. What really tipped it for me was a moment in Portugal vs Spain- the first Spain goal.

Sergio Busquets played a long ball to Diego Costa who won it from Pepe in an aeriel duel. In the usually horrific circumstances for Pepe there was slight contact between Costa's arm and his face and naturally, he went down as though he'd been hit by a pellet bomb. Now, had there been no VAR, I am sure the referee would have called a foul, but having the ability to bring the play back to review allowed him to let play go on. Costa got the ball and as he was trying to get his shot away, the fatally decapitated Pepe realised that the play was not stopping and he was alive after all, so he got up and ran to stop Costa. In that moment it became clear to the referee that Pepe was playacting. So in this case, the mere presence of VAR was enough to prevent an act of cheating from having scuppered a great goal from Costa.

I know the system isn't ideal but clearly there are some great benefits to be had from it. In addition to above, it's great to know that the result of a crucial game will not be determined by an opponent's cheating or a mistake by the linesman. Those who are still not convinced, what would you do to fix it given that it's the future of the game.

hhanif005

{Ed001's Note - while I don't like Pepe and he did make far too much of it, that was a foul and it is just as likely to be given under VAR as it would have been without it.}


1.) 17 Jun 2018 08:16:12
I am all for using video to improve refereeing but I still wish they used a review system instead of the current method. I just feel it's going to lead to refs using it as a crutch. I was amazed the ref didn't immediately give Peru a pen against Denmark and, instead, waited for the VAR system to alert him to the fact.

My worry is that the onfield ref will just become a mouthpiece for the video refs with little authority themselves.


2.) 17 Jun 2018 08:47:32
I thought it was a foul too. Detest Pepe tho.


3.) 17 Jun 2018 09:03:14
I thought it was a foul myself and thought that incident was indicative of the flaws of the system: humans are still making the decisions - humans are fallible and humans see things differently from one another. It was a similar story in the Australia game where I thought the defender touched the ball onto Griezman but VAR awarded a pen. It might stop absolute howlers (and even that is not a certainty) but contentious issues will still be rife. Also don't like how players are already clamouring for the VAR in games nor the way it slows games down. I'd rather the referees where just respected much more irrespective of mistakes - it would empower them and give them a platform to referee better.


4.) 17 Jun 2018 09:10:42
We talk about refs decisions now we talk about var, what's changed. A good example is I 100% didn't think Griezmans was a pen yesterday but there will be many who thought it was.


5.) 17 Jun 2018 09:30:29
I was in a bar full of people who didn't think that greizmans was a penalty and we were struggling to see how it was a "clear mistake" allowing VAR to overturn it. Argentina should have had a penalty in the later game that the ref didn't give and VAR didn't intervene, it still doesn't give consistency it's just another guys opinion sat behind a screen. Drogba, Neville and the other pundit on BBC had 3 different opinions on that Greizman pen so it must be difficult but I thought that's why it had to be a clear and obvious mistake for them to get involved. I also think that certain players will learn to initiate contact so that it looks bad under slow motion cameras, France were disgusting for all their play acting yesterday.


6.) 17 Jun 2018 09:41:52
What I like about VAR and other similar systems in rugby and ice hockey is the players cannot wander up to it and influence them like they do with refs on the field.

Unless governing bodies are going to get more strict about players approaching the ref they need to use VAR.


7.) 17 Jun 2018 09:43:48
The one for Australia agaisnt France - the clear handball by umtiti - is how it should be used. It was clear and obvious and they didn't need 3/ 4 looks to see if it was a foul. Just a quick glance and it's a clear pen. The France penalty people are still debating now - the refs decision should stand.
The bit I don't like is what the OP said, letting the play GK as they know they can go back. The refs should make the calls as they see them, not let everything go as they have a chance to review it.


8.) 17 Jun 2018 10:04:14
It was a foul but I'm glad it wasn't given because Pepe is a notorious play actor and I hate the way players roll around.


9.) 17 Jun 2018 10:55:55
It was a stone wall foul and I couldn’t believe people saying it wasn’t a clear and obvious mistake. He didn’t nearly know him out or anything but it was an arm to the face that clearly knocked him off balance having jumped for the ball.


10.) 17 Jun 2018 13:24:00
It was a foul.


11.) 17 Jun 2018 17:41:56
On another occasion the ref would allow his whistle too early.


12.) 17 Jun 2018 17:42:47
The 'clear and obvious error' moniker was coined by Mike Riley and it stuck. It's not actually on the protocol. He used it as a means to explain its use so that people would understand, and true to form, it's all that people focus on.

I have been sceptical of VAR in it's current form in the UK, but seeing how they let the game flow in the World Cup, even when a decision is imminent, has really impressed me. Players will get used to just getting on with it and playing to the whistle. Obviously not all decisions will be 100% correct, but more will be and any improvement is an improvement nonetheless. Also, there is less harassing of the referees, minimum delays (or delays at suitable times) and a consistency can be more easily maintained. So far, the World Cup usage has changed my mind.


 

 

04 Jul 2017 16:29:45
Hi Ed002, thanks for all your input.

From what you say it almost seems like tapping is a systematic strategy employed by the club to drive prices down. If so then this is even worse than the manager bumbling along tapping one player after next of his own accord.

I understand we don't want to be too specific about LFC for libel reasons but are footy clubs historically known to use tapping systematically and if yes what's the biggest punishment they have received (if any)?

Or have I misunderstood totally and the decision to tap is made spontaneously for some other reason?

Thanks again!

hhanif005

{Ed002's Note - I don't think it is a club strategy. It was only one person who briefed a few choice members of the press.}


1.) 04 Jul 2017 17:21:39
Eds 002 do you think klopp is in danger of losing his job over his tapping up antics?

{Ed002's Note - No but he is embarrassing the club and making things difficult for the owners.}


2.) 04 Jul 2017 18:16:12
Who was that person?

{Ed002's Note - Klopp.}


 

 

 

hhanif005's rumour replies

 

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10 Jun 2018 19:17:29
Do people realise that possibility is not the same is probability.

Probability is a statistical figure which you can quantify. So if you said we have 50% chances of signing Fekir, what you are actually saying is that for every 100 Fekirs you will sign 50 successfully. That's a lot of midfielders. But that's also nonsense!

Then you have possibility, which is stated as a chance in somebody's opinion. So you can say things like it's likely, or unlikely, or difficult to say, or impossible, or certain, or don't know, etc.

Hope that clears things up.

hhanif005

 

 

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10 Jun 2018 11:22:10
Riomazy- you can either learn from mistakes or use them as an excuse to repeat them.

hhanif005

 

 

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10 Jun 2018 01:51:37
Ed002 I think Salah should be worth twice the money for holding his shoulder, the wobbling, the dribbling and nutmegs and for scoring 40+ goals. Tell that to RM will you?!?

Thank you for putting the Fekir hysteria to rest. for now.

hhanif005

{Ed002's Note - And the crying must get the sympathy vote as well.}


 

 

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10 Jun 2018 01:46:36
Who suggested it has anything to do with his medical? The same people who said a deal had been agreed?

It's a bit painful reading pre-emptive digs at our medical team without: (A) knowing whether he did or did not fail the medical and (B) whether he does go on to develop long term knee issues. In fact, quite the contrary, that ED002 is suggesting that the door for a deal being struck is still open, which does suggest that the medical is not the sticking point.

And bringing up Loic Remy is a bit tragic because the way heart diseases are, doctors can only calculate the statistical probability of getting a sickness. Nobody can guarantee that a person will definitely go on to have the illness. And who knows what precautions Remy is taking now since that medical, and if it's impacting his on pitch performance.

Sorry for the rant. But people shouldn't give abuse to medical professionals who know what they are doing- it didn't look pretty when Mourinho tried it at Chelsea.

hhanif005

 

 

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18 Apr 2018 14:02:24
Agreed Cesar. It seems like the overt show of support from fans after the Spurs away game (voting player of the month and all) has helped Lovren turn a corner. And recently he's been very good bar the ManU game.

hhanif005

 

 

 

hhanif005's banter replies

 

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15 Jun 2018 09:14:34
Thanks buddy. Make sure you score a first half hat trick today and get some rest in the second half.

hhanif005

 

 

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15 Jun 2018 01:05:04
I really like the love-in with Karius because it shows we support our team, but despite 2 seasons he's yet to show he's got it. I think we should continue to support him but going into the new season with him as number 1 when we desperately need to win a trophy, with his tendency of being erratic and parrying the ball back into play is. optimistic at best.

I think he should definitely be given a chance to prove himself again, but all players should be held to high professional standards. I'm lucky that I don't work in an environment where millions of people are watching me week in week out, but if my team had worked hard for 9 months towards a project only for me to bottle it at the end, I would be mortified by my own lack of professionalism. I will perhaps expect a bit of sympathy but not a lot of hand holding. I'd definitely feel obliged to win their respect all over again.

GK is our weakest position and we should spend all the money that it takes to strengthen it.

hhanif005

 

 

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14 Jun 2018 09:05:55
It might be a good idea against parked buses but against ordinary teams Salah and Mane stay high and make runs in behind. Having another striker up top will mean them 2 will have to play more like wingers and stay wide and track back.

If anything we should get a right winger and let Salah play up front.

hhanif005

 

 

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11 Jun 2018 19:09:39
Instead of sin bins or naughty steps can I suggest prison time for diving? If I deceived my colleagues at work it would definitely lead to disciplinary action and firing or criminal prosecution.

hhanif005

 

 

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10 Jun 2018 11:23:31
Hmmm that might leave a bad taste.

hhanif005