18 Jul 2019 02:12:31
Regarding Coutinho, some people have very short memories. Coutinho had to put up with some serious lack of quality ahead of him during his time at the club. Apart from Suarez (and Sturridge when fit) he had the likes of Balotelli, Lambert, Aspas, Borini, a raw Sterling, Moses, Ibe, etc to feed balls into.

I remember complaining on here several times about us having such poor quality ahead of him, and this is when he began to add shooting to his game (unfortunately people only seem to remember this aspect of his game), they seem to forget about his world class dribbling ability and vision.

They also seem to forget that he was often played out of position (left wing - which is not his position) . Anyone who has watched Coutinho play over the years knows that he is an attacking midfielder who likes to drop deep, receive the ball, drive at the opposition, and create chances. How can Liverpool fans think of him as a winger who just likes to cut in and shoot from 25 yards?

I suppose we would have to blame Brendan Rodgers for how he ended up at the club, but we should know better. All those who are saying Coutinho was not good enough for us, or he improved us by leaving, etc, need to stop letting the way he left the club cloud their footballing knowledge.


1.) 18 Jul 2019
18 Jul 2019 02:38:51
he got all that quality ahead of him at barfca and his trick still seems to be to cut in onto his right and lash a shot.


2.) 18 Jul 2019
18 Jul 2019 03:35:17
So we didn't improve since he left then? I think you'll find we did mate.


3.) 18 Jul 2019
18 Jul 2019 02:36:24
Just to add substance to my point, here's a post of mine from 2015:

03 Sep 2015 06:52:43
Can someone explain to me why we would buy a target man for a system where we don't threaten from wide? It's quite obvious that we're not going to see Benteke bursting through defences and running onto through balls, which is exactly why Lambert and Balotelli didn't work out for us last season.

Notice how we've played our best football in recent years when we've had forwards who can make penetrating runs. Torres, Suarez, Sturridge, Sterling. And why Carroll, Lambert, and Balotelli didn't work out.

Not only does our system do Benteke a disservice, but also Coutinho and the other attacking players who have no runners to feed through ball to. This is why we were poor last season, and it's exactly the same this season.

Selling Lambert and Balotelli and buying Benteke hasn't solved anything. It's the same problem, just different personnel.

No matter how good a target man we buy, he won't fit in at Liverpool unless we change the system to compliment that player. However, the transfer window is shut, and were left with only Ibe as the natural wide player. I'd suggest Milner, but did he not sign with promises of a central position?

I'll get shot down for this, but I'd drop Benteke (through no fault of his own) and go with Ings up top. At least then Coutinho will have someone running in behind who he can feed his through balls to. I know most will disagree because of how good Benteke is, and how much he cost, but if he's not going to be able to make an impact then why play him. I really don't understand the thought processes behind the majority of transfers over the last few years.


4.) 18 Jul 2019
18 Jul 2019 04:41:45
I remember him very well at his limited time at AM. I remember him as a player who took far too many touches when he should have played the final ball. I remember him as lacking defensively. I remember him as an okay set piece taker who isn’t as good as Trent. Overall I remember him for his goals and wonderful play as many fans do. Which is fine. I like Coutinio. I appreciate what he did for us. I don’t particularly care how he left, Van dijk did the same.

Do I think he’s worth £80-£100 million. Jesus Christ. We were lucky to get the fee we did and there’s significantly better players available for a lower price.


5.) 18 Jul 2019
18 Jul 2019 05:27:54
If Coutinho was world class he would have stood out despite having those forwards ahead of him. Do you think Pirlo or Kaka would have suffered the same with Borini or Aspas ahead of them? Coutinho obviously has a lot of ability or he wouldn't be a Brazilian international but i remember him blowing hot and cold on the pitch, occasionally completely anonymous. He wasnt the hardest worker until his final season and, as the OP points out, was not versatile enough to play in a variety of positions.
I wouldn't be paying more than 30-40m for him and even then it would be to use him as a fallback if Firmino or Gini get injured.


6.) 18 Jul 2019
18 Jul 2019 07:47:57
Coutinho played his first half of a season as an attacking mid when we signed him in January. After that he played left midfield in a diamond for one season which he was okay at but left the defence very exposed. Then he played left forward in a front 3 right up until his last 6 months were Klopp tried him as a left midfielder in the midfield 3, but quickly realised he couldn't hack it and rotated Coutinho and Mané in the left forward role.

People do have short memories, but it is not the people saying Coutinho can't play midfield. He was removed from midfield because we were conceding 50 odd goals a season with the likes of him in there.

Coutinho is a very good left forward. He is a bit of a one trick pony, but so was Robben. If the trick is that good, then it's not a bad thing. The problem is not that Coutinho isn't good enough for Liverpool. As a left forward we have literally seen years of proof he links well with Firmino etc. The problem is that when he left and we stopped rotating Mané all the time, Sadio went to a new level and is now arguably the best left forward in world football. So Coutinho would pretty much be an £80m reserve player. Unless people genuinely believe that 18 months playing as a left winger in Spain or for Brazil will have made him a better midfielder in English football or that he is better than Mané.


7.) 18 Jul 2019
18 Jul 2019 08:54:08
you wrote all of that and fail to recognize the simple fact that his current style isn't a natural fit for how we currently play.


8.) 18 Jul 2019
18 Jul 2019 09:30:00
Most teams would improve if they spent about €250 m on players after Coutinho’s departure though Salah, lol?


9.) 18 Jul 2019
18 Jul 2019 10:10:08
He didn't win us anything anyway.


10.) 18 Jul 2019
18 Jul 2019 10:37:19
Red rum, spot on! Eamonn, he took far to many touches of the ball because the movement ahead of him at the time red rum is talking was shocking, nobody was on his wavelength. Like a Virgil, if he didn't stand out why did Barcelona pay (potentially) £142 million for him?


11.) 18 Jul 2019
18 Jul 2019 10:45:11
Agreed TJ but we saw our attack improve dramatically since he left mate, that was clear for everybody to see and we didn't improve on our attack since he left. Look at Firmino, he's always been a good player but when coutinho left he turned into an excellent player. This system wasn't suited to Coutinho, he'd be the odd one out in this team now.


12.) 18 Jul 2019
18 Jul 2019 10:51:59
Just reading ballotelli borini and lambert sends shudders 😂.


13.) 18 Jul 2019
18 Jul 2019 11:18:48
Barcelona pay (potentially) £142 million for him?
============================================

Well Barcelona did n't pay anywhere near that for him . Ed002 explained it just yesterday so far they paid around the £90m for him.


14.) 18 Jul 2019
18 Jul 2019 11:23:55
This whole Coutinho thing . Its ridiculous to say he was n't a stand out player . just search this same site from 2 years ago and you will see a lot of praise for him and yes a lot of criticism.
Did we improve without him? Of course we did, BUT I think we would've improved with him as well .
Will he make us a better team? Probably NOT, but will offer us something different and I believe with him in the team will give Firmino more freedom up front and more goals .
I don't care if he is back or not . If he is back, it means Klopp wanted him back and will have a plan for him.


15.) 18 Jul 2019
18 Jul 2019 13:19:32
Long story short people need to get over him, he's never going to return to Liverpool and that's that so all this talk is irrelevant.


16.) 18 Jul 2019
18 Jul 2019 14:44:39
My post has nothing to do with Coutinho returning but rather to do with the fickleness of some fans. Comments like "he didn't win us anything" and "so we didn't improve since he left then? " are ridiculous. How can one player win us silverware? Just look at the lack of quality he had to put up with - and I didn't even mention the defenders. Did we improve because we sold a crap player who hindered our progress through lack of ability, or did we improve because we invested mega money to strengthen in other areas?

Coutinho is one of those players that you need to build a system around. Play him out on the wing and you hinder his ability (as we have seen both at Liverpool and Barcelona), play him as a box to box midfielder (as in Klopp's system) and he'll look lazy. Play him as the attacking midfielder in a 433 with two holding midfielders behind him and three quality forwards ahead of him and watch the little magician work.

Look at Shaqiri. He was outstanding in attacking midfield early on last season, but when Klopp switched back to his 433 (flat midfield), Shaqiri was frozen out of the team. Klopp did not want to play him out wide where he would be less effective, nor did he trust him in a box to box role. Likewise, Coutinho would find himself in the same situation if he returned to Liverpool - which is why a return is very unlikely.


17.) 18 Jul 2019
18 Jul 2019 14:58:27
No idea why they paid that, Waro (although 90m is more accurate) . Im sure Messi and Neymar wanted him and Barcas scouts thought he would do well in La Liga. doesn't change the fact that for us he didn't work hard enough and took endless shots from 30 yards when there was a pass available. Some of those shots hit the back of the net, as we all remember, but i also recall more of them hitting the nosebleed section. Good enough player on his day but Barcelona were utterly robbed at that price.


18.) 18 Jul 2019
18 Jul 2019 16:20:02
Red Rum, no offence but you talk like it's FIFA mate. Where is the evidence that Coutinho will be this world class saviour in attacking midfield of a 4-2-1-3? He's barely kicked a ball in that role in years, if ever. Sure, his technical ability points towards that being a good fit for him, but every time a team has tried him there he's looked shackled. He's best when he has time on the ball. You don't get that in the hole behind the striker. You have to be ahead of everyone else mentally and find time/ space where there is none.

Coutinho's best attributes are running at people and making them commit so he can feint inside and either get a shot away, whip a cross in, or slide a pass through to the forwards. Its easy to find space out wide so it suits him. He's not intelligent enough as a player to find space in congested areas and he wants too many touches to consistently pass through teams. All his problems are in his head. Technically he is easily good enough so it looks great on paper. If he had the tactical acumen to do it though, I'm sure one of his past 4 or 5 managers would've played him there.

You claim that it hinders his ability when he is played out wide but as a wide forward he was arguably our best player at times. I think He's a very good player but this myth that he can play midfield is out of hand. Even Barcelona believed it when they signed him to replace Iniesta. If he can't cope with the workload of a midfielder at the top team in a very top heavy La liga, then he has no chance in the Premier League.

I don't know what you are basing these statements on, but they are baseless opinions. His best season in midfield was 13/ 14 and that was nearly 6 years ago when he had a lot more youthful exuberance, but as a team we still let in over 50 goals which cost us the title. No way you can blame Coutinho for that, but as a unit, we were less solid with him in midfield. He only scored 8 goals that year. He's at least doubled that return playing as a left forward. Even Rodgers clocked on to that. You've made a comment there as if Rodgers was bad for Coutinho's career/ development but under Rodgers he went from a under performing midfielder on the fringes of an aging Inter Milan team, to one of the best left forwards in Europe. The problem I have with him coming back is that Mane is even better.


19.) 18 Jul 2019
18 Jul 2019 16:54:52
Well said, PB. Cou is a has been and we have become a better team, scored more, conceded less, won more points and won The Sixth, all accomplished after he left.

We have moved on from him. Maybe those who want him back or those bashing others for not wanting him back should stop rewriting history making it look like he was some type of beast as a player cos we all don't have short memories.


20.) 18 Jul 2019
18 Jul 2019 18:55:27
Plain bread, I base my statements on what I see on the pitch. You pull up a bunch of stats and say I'm talking as if it's Fifa?

RedWolf, the logic on here never ceases to amaze me. We had a successful season after Coutinho left so that means he was rubbish anyway - let's disregard all other factors.

Ah, I digress.


21.) 18 Jul 2019
18 Jul 2019 19:10:10
Coutinho is a very talented player. He scored 12 goals in his last half season here despite not really giving a toss. You can't do that if you're not any good, regardless of the quality of the players around you. But the problem is even before he was on a go slow to get his Barcelona move, he played for himself.

Maybe this was partly as a result of having a couple of seasons where he was the only real quality we had, but for whatever reason, he took way too many touches, constantly passed up opportunities to keep flowing moves going in favour of trying to engineer a shot or a final ball himself whether it was on or not, which, once we had quality around him, made us a worse team in spite of his own personal contributions.

If he'd change that, he'd slot into the team no problem, but why would we expect him to do that? It's his style and probably always will be.

With that being the case, there's no point in going back for him and had Oxlade-Chamberlain not gotten injured, I don't think we'd even be talking about it.


22.) 19 Jul 2019
19 Jul 2019 10:19:00
I loved him at the time RedWolf. I wouldn't call him a has been personally. From when Suarez left to when Mane signed, for me he was our best player. He was brilliant at times and scored game changing goals at times when we lacked quality.

Klopp raised the bar though. Coutinho is not world class. He's just very good. We now have world class players through the team. Alisson, Virgil, Salah and Mane in particular. Arnold, Robbo, Fabinho and Firmino are all debateable too depending on how you define it.

Coutinho would be a good signing if we didn't already have a world class player in his position. Mane is a phenom. He matched Salah and Aubameyang, outscored Kane, Hazard and Aguero etc. And those 5 all take penalties and free kicks. Mane is currently the most prolific forward in the league from open play.

So why would we spend all that money on Coutinho who's best position is where Mane plays? If we want an attacking midfielder we should sign a specialist. Not try and force Coutinho into a role he's got no track record of performing in, despite playing with world class players at club and international level.


23.) 19 Jul 2019
19 Jul 2019 13:07:57
Coutinho is not a winger Plain Bread.


24.) 19 Jul 2019
19 Jul 2019 19:04:56
Theres no doubt he is an elite player. But he just doesn't fit our current style. If he had stayed i think klopp would have built the team around him. But he didnt. So we changed our style of play and became more succesful. I think signing vvd was massive in us becoming a better team. More so than couthino leaving.

Could couthino change his style? Maybe. Should he? No, he should stay at Barcelona and try and prove the fans wrong.