31 Jan 2019 10:47:52
Ed001 seen you comment on both peno shouts


What about the yellow on Maguire should it have been red it was intentional and a goal scoring chance.

{Ed001's Note - looked like one to me, Mane would have had a clear head start on everyone else, who were all going the other way, and in on the keeper. How could it not be a clear goal scoring opportunity? I am not sure what qualifies as one if that doesn't.}


1.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 10:54:58
Stonewall pen and definitely a red for me.


2.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 11:11:19
DOGSO ( denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity) has two part.
One, the DOGSO itself, and two, the offence itself.
To sum up the offence side quickly, an honest attempt trying to play the ball, is a yellow card. Anything upper body or not trying to play the ball is a red. Also in or out the box comes in to play.

As the offence/ foul takes place, you must then freeze everything as if you’ve just taken a photo of where everything is, at the point of contact.
Then there is 4 criteria to look at to decide on DOGSO.
CDDD
Control- is the attacker in control of the ball?
Direction- direction of the ball, is it going toward goal or away from?
Distance- this is the distance between the foul and the goal.
Defenders- at the point of contact, how many defender are around/ where are they located?

These are the 4 things we are to look for. You may all have different opinions, but I believe the yellow card was right, JUST!
I believe the other touch from the defender which slowed the ball and sent it wider, affects the direction. Just enough to save maguire, if there is no touch and that ball is ending up dead centre of the pitch, maguire is gone.

That’s my defending of him using logic. However.
The other day I listed the worse referees in the premier league. Atkinson seeing Keita cleared out, and not giving a penalty, is exactly why he and the other dinosaurs need to step down, and give up their 80k a year for referees who can actually do the job with pride and enthusiasm.
Referee of the week for me is Paul Tierney. To give the penalty against Fernandinho by being in a fantastic position, and for his booking of KDB, after clearly telling him to wait for the whistle, and KDB thinking he’s more important than the referee.

Ps, I wouldn’t of allowed last nights game to be played. The ball did not run true and the players were struggling to slow down and turn. That first half did not look safe. But I guess money talks.


3.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 11:13:06
It’s Martin Atkinson, he’s a joke of a referee - easily one of the worst I’ve seen in the top flight.
I still remember the way he allowed Chelsea to timewaste from the first minute to the last in 2014.


4.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 11:38:16
Cheers Benny, love the insight from the other side. The pen was a definite for me, really didn't get the commentators saying keita was on his way down. But we have got the rub of the green with some other 50/ 50 so it is what it is. However it would be nice just to have some officials that can do the job. VAR will be great, if used correctly and not for every decision. Only overturn clear and obvious errors.


5.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 11:40:41
thanks benny baller for explaining.
Martin Atkinson was poor all night for both sides. just that in our case its a red card and penalty, so we feel very hard done by.
and i agree with you, he is clueless, regardless how much in control he appears.


6.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 11:45:53
I was at the game last night and once again I was sickened by outrageously bad refereeing. No doubt Benny Baller will shoot me down on this but I think the problem with some Premier League referees is more than just incompetence. Take the latest examples from last night’s game. Atkinson clearly saw the foul by Maguire on Mane and in accordance with Benny’s explanation of DOGSO it was a clear red card but he gave a yellow card. Television coverage proves without doubt that Atkinson had an unimpeded view and clearly saw the foul in the penalty area by Pereira on Keita but he gave nothing. In both incidents Atkinson saw what happened and deliberately chose to ignore the laws of the game. That is not incompetence that is cheating whatever his motivation. I honestly think there is an issue of corruption in some elements of the elite referees group.

{Ed025's Note - i cant believe you actually think he cheated WW, mistakes are made thats just part and parcel of the game mate, do you not think refs are thinking twice about giving things like pens because they are being kidded by certain players who go down too easily and make them look like fools?...sometimes you reap what you sow im afraid..


7.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 12:12:12
Ed025, yes I think Atkinson cheated last night and I think other referees cheat in other games. What would you call it when television proves that a referee had a clear, unimpeded view of an incident and yet chose to ignore the laws of the game and give a wrong decision or no decision? I am not just referring to decisions against Liverpool, it happens every week to every team. It is beyond incompetence and beyond ‘thinking twice about giving things’.

{Ed025's Note - i think thats unfair WW, making a mistake yes i will have that...but blatant cheating?, thats a massive call from you mate..


8.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 12:28:45
Ed025, I thought you would be on my side on this. I haven’t met an Evertonian who doesn’t think Clive Thomas cheated when he disallowed Bryan Hamilton’s goal for Everton against Liverpool in the FA Cup semi final in 1977. 😉.

{Ed025's Note - he deffo did WW, but that was in the days before sky and the scrutiny that brings, everything is under a microscope now and every decision analyzed over and over which eliminates underhand business hopefully mate, but as you well know we evertonians dont moan and took it on the chin.. :)


9.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 12:34:47
I don’t think Atkinson cheated. It was just not a competent performance. Simple as.


10.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 12:47:56
I think your confusing incompetence with cheating mate, it was a penalty 100% and just because the cameras show he had a view of it doesn’t mean he saw it as such, the game goes fast and it is not always clear in real time, we have the benefit of slowed down replays remember, plus he could have actually blinked and missed it haha
The yellow card could have easilly been a red another day, for me it’s borderline though, so can’t complain too much there either. He’s a crap ref but he’s not a cheat that’s unfair and we can’t blame him for our poor performance.

{Ed025's Note - spot on mikey..


11.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 12:56:11
He’s a bottler, not a cheater.

{Ed025's Note - not giving decisions against the home side with the home fans baying for blood is not what i would call bottling RITWW, anfield can be a very daunting place for a referee and atkinson never buckled mate, he may have misjudged a couple of situations but that happens and its time to move on i feel..


12.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 12:58:33
Be careful when making allegations of cheating 😉

I don’t think Maguire’s yellow card was wrong, there were too many imponderables as Benny clearly laid out in his post.

I don’t understand why Keita didn’t get a penalty but this kind of thing has been going on since football began. I’m certain it’s not cheating every time so you can’t assume it’s cheating this time.

As fans we have to get away with blaming poor officiating for our results. We have benefited from poor officiating and vice-versa.
Apart from the first 30 minutes (generous) we did not deserve to win that game last night and that has nothing to do with the referee.


13.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 13:00:11
1985Mickey, I was one of the many tens of thousands who were at the game and saw it as a penalty in real time and none of us had as clear a view of the incident as Atkinson did. Television simply proved that he had an unimpeded, close-up view of the incident and chose not to give what was a blatant penalty. Why was that, I wonder?
Mark my words, one day soon (perhaps when I am dead and gone - Ed025 can only hope) corruption amongst PL referees will be exposed and you will all say “That Wirral Wonder wasn’t such a crackpot after all! ”.


14.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 13:11:16
Atkinson, Dean and Moss are the worst refs in the league imo. Don't think they're 'cheaters', they're just plain incompetent, which doesn't really reflect well on the quality of refereeing in the English leagues, considering how they're some of the most experienced refs around.


15.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 13:13:38
To Ed025, you say the ref couldn't be cheating because of TV coverage and everything being gone over with a fine tooth comb, well what happens? He has been showen to be incompetent by the TV images and made blatanty incorrect decisions in this and other games, will there be a Police investigation into his action? Not a hope. So if a ref was on the take and cheating, who would know? With the amount of money in the game it is hard to believe that some people haven't been corrupted by the $$$$$. It has happened in other European countries.
What controls are in place in the EPL to prevent this, if any that you are aware of?

Keep up the good work Ed025.

{Ed025's Note - thats one for the conspiracy page i think polecat mate..


16.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 13:25:46
I don’t think he was cheating. If he was, he would have given the foul on hendo early on. He just doesn’t seem to be a good ref

There were several bad decisions for us in the game which happens in football. We’ve had them go for and against us this season. We should have had two clear pens but it’s done and we shouldn’t dwell on it. To be honest, decisions aside, we didn’t play well at all after the first 10 minutes. We moved the ball slowly and with no real creativity - probably impacted by the pitch.

Either way, we have a 5 point lead and we’re still in a great position with most of the tough games at Anfield. We need Gomez and Trent back to bring back the right balance. We seem susceptible to quick counters as we’re lacking the pace at the back with matip and Milner/ hendo. We’ve had a bad Jan (form wise) but win at West Ham and we can start rediscovering the December form.


17.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 13:52:04
Haha, wirral i explained why its a yellow, but still adamant it's a red? That's dedication to the cause bro.
As for your cheating claims, there have been many referees who cheat. The referee of chelsea vs Barcelona in the champions league, years ago, is the biggest act of cheating i have ever seen. I'll entertain your claims and play devils advocate to ed025. Are we too arrogant as a nation to believe our game is sacred? Wherever there is huge amounts of money, you will always find corruption. ( I'm not saying Atkinson is a cheat, or cheated last night ) But i have maintained for a decade that whilst we judge the italian league and others on match fixing, or the australian cricket team, we never seem to look on our own door step. David gill on the fa board whilst director at united coincided with their biggest ever dominance of the english game ( but no european dominance, strange ) Just an example of things the british turn a blind eye too.

{Ed025's Note - my stiff upper lip is quivering now benny.. :)


18.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 13:59:46
I was at the game last night and whilst i do think upon reflection and seeing it in real time it was a penalty but referees are human and make mistakes. We should have had enough and played well enough to win without relying on a decison from the ref. We didn't deserve the win last night and hopefully will learn from that.
Also whilst i stated it looked a pen from the kop, when you're at the game every time the ref gives something against your team it is always the wrong decision! That happens in every ground at every game across the country!

We only got a point, we only deserved a point. Time to move on to the next game.


19.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 14:31:50
Benny Baller, so much money in the PL, so much at stake, so much money in the Asian betting markets, referees only (! ) paid £80k a year when others in the game are paid £millions, so many dodgy characters involved in and around the game, etc, etc - a rich environment in which corruption could flourish.

RDP, I haven’t mentioned the actual game in my earlier posts but I agree with you that we didn’t deserve a win last night and Leicester deserved at least a draw.


20.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 14:54:00
If were saying McGuire isn't a ref. Then am confused! Mane is away they couldn't catch him on a level start all game yet he was away to sprint into a 3 4 yards head start. Also worth noting for anyone who says he was going wide. Is as klopp said if you look at wider angle salah is away down the right so chances are mane would square it anyway. I feel for officials as same with offside rule. We have made them so difficult and open to error. Like wolves winner v Leicester few weeks ago. Jota is miles off. Then without defence ever getting close to goal side of him, cause of his massively offside position he scores a tap in from pass from teammate who was onside! You wonder why teams don't try leaving a player miles offside on purpose. Very confusing.


21.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 16:11:39
“What would you call it when television proves that a referee had a clear, unimpeded view of an incident and yet chose to ignore the laws of the game and give a wrong decision or no decision? ”

Human error funnily enough.

Precisely the kind of thing VAR is meant to be ironing out.

{Ed025's Note - his interpretation i would say wassa..


22.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 16:35:32
1 mistake maybe 2 is ok ed but 3 clear mistakes isn't a mistake incompetence


Performances like that should make you drop to a. lower standard.

{Ed025's Note - its subjective though dezy, obviously you being a red will think they are nailed on, a leicester supporter would say none of them were, a neutral like myself would think they have seen them given but its swings and roundabouts mate..


23.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 17:23:32
They result was fair in the end I think as we were just poor on the day and that's all I have to say about that. I enjoyed bennys listing out of the rules as I think that as fans we often don't actually know the letter of the law refs are actually replying.

Just with the offence part of the ruling it mentions deliberate and accidental fouling, it see me to me that maguire deliberately kicked out at mane, and not just a trip bit with a little bit of force behind it and there was certainly not attempt for the ball in fact the ball wasn't even in play for Maguire really
So would that also not also be weighed into the decision as it that not misconduct, or excessive force as you couldn't just kick another player on the pitch when you aren't playing the ball om purpose in any situation surely last man or not

And as an extension to that I'm interested about this idea of "professional fouls" in general where a player just deliberately fouls someone to stop counters ect, seen by liverpool and city to prevent break aways when we lose the ball with men pushed forward, because in England we often talk about diving as cheating and how that should lead to retrospective bans but surely any deliberate action which breaks the rules of the game and is used to gain an advantage is cheating so why is this not as heavily vilified when its much easier to see a player deliberately impeding and opponent to prevent goal scoring scenarios. Also if Benny had any info on the whole professional foul/ deliberate fouling laws that would cool.

But as i say this seems to be part and parcel of the game, decisions to for and against you and in the end we just weren't at it on the day to get the win.


24.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 19:20:29
Cheating? Nah, WW. let's stop with all that. Now was it a penalty? Absolutely. Why? Cos we could all see it in real time as soon as it happened. I saw it on the telly and immediately screamed penalty. If I can see that from my telly then what is the ref's excuse? He is 3 yards away from the play with NOBODY impeding his vision. ENOUGH! Let us stop defending the indefensible and start calling out incompetence whenever we see it.

English refs are SEVERELY incompetent on all levels and they screw every team in the PL whether it b LFC or Fulham. Even Newcastle got screwed when the ref BOTTLED a clear sending off when KDB made the same challenge that Hendo and Matip got booked for (Hendo got sent off at Watford and rightfully so) BUT they won so who cares, right? That is my biggest issue. Rank Inconsistency and incompetence.


25.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 19:26:04
Ed25, this one is for you. There is an incident that people are not talking about. There was a free kick that was taken by LC where ALL 4 LC players were off side including Maguire who then heads the ball across goal and Allison makes a point blank save off Bobbie's ricochet. If that had gone in and we had lost trust me, you will have a very hard time defending the ref's pathetic performance with the typical "mistakes always happen".

Yes, they do and I can deal with the ref making a couple of mistakes esp. in a game where we did not play well. Now had that goal been scared, Atkinson would have a) Missed a blatant penalty. b) Missed a clear red card on Maguire. Why? Maguire ran to the ref immediately to plead his case cos we could all see Mane with his pace was going to get the ball and c) Missed a clear off side which would have led to a goal. Sorry, that is NOT normal as that is too much to overcome. This is rank incompetence so you need to call it whenever you see it at ALL levels in every PL game. Oh, did I also mention that James Maddison dived with no contact from Hendo in the first half right in front of the ref and he did not book him? Cheers, mate.

{Ed025's Note - for a start if leicester had scored then the fault would have been down to the linesman, refs are scared to give penalties in case they are wrong and they get accused of playing to the crowd and this has created a problem, the problem in the first place is caused by players like your own mo salah doing impressions of greg louganis on a regular basis so you are looking in the wrong place for sympathy mate, people who live in glass houses and all that my friend..


26.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 19:37:34
RedWolf, how long does incompetence amongst the same group of referees have to go on before it becomes clear that something more sinister is afoot? And just think on this - the elite referees organisation is Professional Game Match Officials Limited and their general manager is Mike Riley. Yes, the same Mike Riley who when he was referee officiated at 23 Manchester United games between 1997 and 2004 and awarded Manchester United 12 penalties. More incompetence? I just don’t think so. And don’t get me started on who shot JFK!

{Ed025's Note - im sure that grassy knoll was in better condition than the liverpool pitch last night WW.. :)


27.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 20:06:26
Ed025, and Lee Harvey Oswald would need to have had a better shot on him than Mo Salah to have done all the shooting himself!

{Ed025's Note - love it mate..


28.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 21:24:26
Sorry, Ed25 BUT what does MO Salah have to do with anything? It was Keita that got clearly fouled and a pen was there to be given and not Salah so again, what does Mo have to do with anything here? That is a deflection, man. If the ref is not giving a blatant pen to another LFC player cos Salah dived in one game then, we have WAY bigger problems here. "

Also, I ain't buying that stuff about "refs are scared to give penalties in case they are wrong and they get accused of playing to the crowd and this has created a problem". They are there to do their jobs and not care what fans of other teams think about their decisions. If they cannot execute their duties correctly and faithfully due to fear of backlash then they should step aside and let others step in. If a ref is not sure of what I can see from way over here then he is in the wrong job, plain and simple. Had Naby got the pen, no one would have blinked nor complained. Again, another pathetic cop out.

And finally, me needing sympathy from you? Now that is funny. Don't ever quit your day job, man. You'll be a terrible comedian. Cheers, man.

{Ed025's Note - i think its all related redwolf, the pressure on refs is relentless and players and managers have no respect for them (never mind the supporters), the players are in their face after every decision that goes against them and its getting beyond a joke mate, my point is that players are cheating to gain an advantage (cue mr salah) and the officials are damned if they give a pen damned if they dont, they are just trying to do their job and i know you dont give a toss about that because things never went in liverpools favour this time, i say we cut them some slack and let them try to improve for the good of the game...peace my friend..


29.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 22:25:25
Ed25, I don't disagree with anything you have said BUT one correction. I DO give a toss about how refs are treated by players and managers so that part of your post is out of order, respectfully. I played football up to the amateur level in France and never got even a booking in my amateur career so I am the wrong person to be accusing me of not giving a toss about a ref cos I respect them as people first even if they screw up.

I fully understand that a ref can make a mistake and may not have seen something or had a bad angle in his view to be able to see an incident and judge it correctly. Like I said, I can take a ref making one or even two mistakes based on the circumstances. What I cannot stomach is when they make 3 or more in the same game against one team (like he and his linesman did last night) . That is incompetence and some of these PL refs can also be very arrogant as well. Clattenburg, Poll Webb, and Dean are just a few of them past and present, who seemed to love the limelight than actually doing their jobs.

Also, I do not like it either when players circle the ref and give him loads cos in my day, even touching the ref was a bookable offence and now it is not even enforced anymore sadly. I'm happy our players don't do that. Again, you fail to address my earlier point. Why are you talking about Salah when we are talking about the pen. incident vs LC or are you suggesting that Keita dived as well?

Keita did not dive and was clattered into clearly so to punish him just cos "other players dive" or cos "Salah dived once so no pen for LFC till further notice" even tho Keita didn't, is pathetic, irresponsible and again, a cop-out. There is NO relation here. Apart from all that, it's all good. On to the next game.

{Ed025's Note - im just sticking up for the refs mate because in my view they get the crappy end of the stick every time, in my day if you laid a hand on a ref you were sine die no question, its ok to disagree my friend as its always going to be an emotive and subjective topic, i always seem to be on the side of the underdog...maybe thats the evertonian in me.. :)


30.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 22:08:32
As long as you're not biting your bottom lip ed025, you know how that makes me feel ;)
You sending polecat to the conspiracy page is the general problem we have in this country, as in turning a blind eye to it and calling those who make the accusations crazy.
Let us not forget Clattenburgh inadvertently admitting to preempted decisions in the chelsea vs spurs game, or how even off-field issues such as a certain red nosed manager picking and choosing which journalists were allowed to press conferences at their ground, or a referee who did not ref a certain united club, for 3 years, after giving a penalty at their ground.

It's all there for those who wish to seek the truth :D.


31.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 23:01:58
Keita is not Salah. but i do understand there is not conspiracy behind this 😆.


32.) 31 Jan 2019
31 Jan 2019 23:02:03
Yes the ref got it wrong buy having to listen to McManaman change his mind every two seconds about it was worse seriously bt need better commentators.