17 Jan 2019 16:14:52
Hi Ed002

Just for interest sake, who was the Liverpool player Klopp tapped up while at Dortmund? If I were to guess I'd say Tiago Illori.

{Ed002's Note - Sahin.}

1.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 16:28:19
I might get a lot of disagrees for this but I just do not see this whole tapping up issue as a problem. I am not saying this just because Klopp has done it.

I genuinely cannot see the harm in approaching a player to see if they want to join your team. In the normal world it happens all the time.

I am open minded with this, so if someone has a reason why it isn't good then please reply?

{Ed001's Note - because it is against the rules and can mess with a player's head.}

2.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 16:43:58
Surely that is the players problem? They are all adults with there own brains.

If I am approached by another company to work for them, I can make that decision on my own head?

I can maybe understand it not being allowed for players under 18 or 21.

I also do not think that, 'because it is against the rules' is an argument, rules are changed all the time because they are not fit for purpose anymore.

{Ed001's Note - what you do in your life is not even close to what happens in football, please drop that comparison, it is ridiculous and pointless.

If you just allow clubs to constantly tap up and approach whoever they want, the whole thing just becomes a mess. This is not like your business, where no one even knows who the hell you are or cares. So it is very rare you are going to get headhunted and there are rules in place to deal with that too anyway. The only reason your company would not be complaining would be because you are so insignificant they just don't care what you do.

If you mattered, like a footballer does to his club, then you could not simply be approached and offered a contract in any walk of life.}

3.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 16:34:00
Ah makes sense that it was a former player of his as he keeps regular contact with many of them. I completely forgot about Nuri.

Thanks a lot for the reply Ed002. Have a leka one.

4.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 17:13:33
Fergie used to kidnap players on the way to other clubs! But in all honesty tapping up happens everywhere at every club I get why it's not allowed 100% do but everyone does it.

5.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 17:31:24
I’m with Piff on this. Managers and clubs get hauled over the coals for talking to a player but get lauded for sending spies to hide in bushes and watch opponent’s training sessions?
That just doesn’t seem right to me.
I know you like Bielsa Ed1 but for me what he’s been doing in underhand, deceitful and just downright wrong. As for his press conference I thought he made matters even worse. Genius? Not for me.
I don’t see how talking to a player, who is obviously interested in talking to you or he wouldn’t be there is worse than that.

{Ed001's Note - no one sent spies to hide in bushes. Utter lies. The man was on a public footpath and it is nothing more than scouting, after all Lampard said he had the same information on Leeds, so what does it matter? There are absolutely no rules against teams watching other teams training sessions. Liverpool in the 80s used to regularly host scouts and coaches who would come to watch training.

Talking to someone else's employee is nothing like the same, it is another ludicrous comparison.}

6.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 18:01:37
If a club has 30 players shortlisted for transfer and Klopp speaks to all of them, it’s going to cause huge issues. Clubs won’t be happy, players what push for moves even though they are not really in consideration. The player may be thinking about Liverpool Rather than their own team. How would we like it if the Madrid manager spoke to salah mane and Firmino and said he thinks they are good, they should be on more money and he would like to buy them. He then goes and buys hazard and all three players want more money, have asked to go Madrid and have lost focus?

7.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 18:22:35
Can't control the urge to get involved in this debate, so here I go!

Ed001, I totally get your point, but I do think you were a bit harsh on Pff, a bit personal.

Its not like any of us workers being approached by another company (albeit there anti-solicitation clauses in most employment contracts these days) as we are one of a multitude of people who could do the same job (in the main) .

To try to get even a small comparison to other work situations, its more like the top people in large organisations. They often have golden handcuffs and very long notice periods (6-12m etc) as they are in a small minority of people who can do their job.

There aren't that many Mo Salahs, or Meesis in the world, so of course a club wants to protect their asset and avoid them being 'tapped up' by other teams (whether through the manager, other players or whoever) . Yes it does go on - just look to Stevie G's book for examples - but that doesn't make it right.

Of course, approaching a club through the proper channels is what should happen - approach the club first and ask permission as these are the rules that have been set out to protect all parties, just as top bosses moving from company to company would tend to include the agreement of all parties (even if grudgingly! ) and probably compensation either in the form of payment or time.

Long and short of it, tapping up is wrong, and illegal. It does go on in football, but it shouldn't. And when it gets discovered, it ends up costing the guilty parties, whether in sanctions from governing bodies or, in the case of us and VVD, a financial penalty associated to the transfer (higher fee, all paid in cash not phased)

I feel better now :)

{Ed001's Note - I wasn't meaning it to sound harsh on him, I was merely pointing out that he is operating at a completely different level, like most of us are. We are insignificant specks in the main, whereas professional footballers are in the top 0.1% of their field.}

8.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 19:05:32
Recently Ed02 was good enough to explain once again how the transfer business SHOULD operate and his opening para was as follows:

The process should be along the lines of: Clubs will typically informally ask an agent (a) if the player is going to be available, and (b) would the player consider a move to the club. There may be some broad discussion on the sort of deal that would be offered but no more than that. If the answer is yes, it is then necessary for the club to approach the player's club to ask if they would be willing to sell and if they would grant permission to speak to a player's agent formally about a transfer and possibly even the player about actually making a move.

Obviously the trouble starts if the potential buying club (or its manager) break the rules by directly approaching the player, not his agent, without first getting permission to do so from the player’s club. I totally get it that those are the rules but quite honestly, to a simple football fan like me, this seems a distinction without much of a difference.

9.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 20:00:35
Seriously, what part of "Tapping up of players is illegal and wrong" do people still have a problem with? Have they forgotten how Klopp tapping up VVD messed with his head and Saints made us pay for it big time? Tapping us is wrong, illegal and destructive to the player, end of story. LFC had a bad rep all over Europe for tapping up players (even BR asked Gerrard to tap players up during int'l games) BUT clearly, that is not a prob cos of the pathetic, intellectually bankrupt "Everyone does it" nonsense. No wonder our society is SO messed up and lacks accountability.

Also, If you think VVD was worth 75m then you are deluding yourselves. Ed02 did the breakdown of the money we paid for him and trust me, Klopp tapping up VVD, got the club fleeced, completely taking us to the cleaners financially and don't even bother asking about the agent fees. Tapping up is illegal and those who condone it by saying everyone does it, are bang out of order.

10.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 20:55:02
RedWolf, I love your passion which comes through in your posts. Allow me to expand a little on my post on tapping up above, by way of an example.
Scenario 1 : A representative of Premier League Club A approaches the agent of a player of Premier League Club B and explains that Club A’s manager is desperate to sign him and build his team around him. The representative throws in a ballpark figure of the wages Club A is prepared to pay.
Scenario 2 : the manager of Premier League Club A approaches a player of Premier League Club B, tells him that he is desparate to sign him and build his team around him. The manager throws in a ballpark figure of the wages his club is prepared to pay the player.
Scenario 1 is within the rules. Scenario 2 is against the rules. But really, what is the big difference?

{Ed002's Note - it is pitiful the efforts made to try and justify the repeated illegal approaches by Klopp. He is costing the club millions and continued loss of face.}

11.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 21:35:15
Ed02, believe it or not, I not trying to justify Klopp’s actions or those of anyone else at Liverpool Football Club. I accept without reservation that he/ the club has broken the rules and must pay the price for doing so. I also accept that the reputation of the club suffers when others in the game, at home and abroad, who stick to the rules see this happening. What I am trying to do is understand the rationale for what I see as a rather pointless rule in the modern game. Genuinely, as a football fan with zero knowledge of how these things work, I would be grateful to you or any other Ed if you could explain to me what is the real difference in terms of impact on a player or his club if an employee or representative of a potential buying club approaches him direct rather than via his agent.
Or you could call me a pathetic, knuckle- dragging moron with low morals and tell me to go away.

{Ed002's Note - I am not going to get involved with this.}

12.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 21:51:50
Hello, so it’s “repeated illegal approaches by Klopp” now? Snyonevwould think you didn’t like him. I’ve counted two that have been mentioned, but we seem to be veering into gutter-press-speak which is a shame. Unfortunate if it cost us a lot of money we might have not had to spend, but Is VVD worth £75M? Damn right he is.

13.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 22:39:52
Great post wirral. Youve highlighted a double standard there that has always baffled me. If tapping up is ethically wrong then it should be against the rules to do so also thru any rep/ agent. That really would be a game changer if clubs needed to give their permission for agents to talk to their players.

{Ed002's Note - Never going to happen.}

14.) 17 Jan 2019
17 Jan 2019 23:03:50
ND, allow me to help you here. Tapping up has been rampant at the club way before Klopp got here. BR was already doing it when he arrived, tapping up Clint Dempsey at Fulham which peed them off so much that they would not sell him to us come hell or high water while at the same time, messing with the player's head. After that, we got caught up with BR tapping up Kovacic while he was at Inter and the probs. that caused. Ed02 at the time, mentioned how LFC had gotten a bad reputation around Europe for tapping up players which is how I know that it has been a problem. Not for you clearly.

Then when Klopp arrives, he not only taps up VVD, he taps up Salah and Keita which peed these clubs off and got him into more trouble. This was all public knowledge at the time on this forum as Ed02 kept us in the loop about these issues. I'm sorry, this is not any type of gutter-press-speak. These are facts. And you thinking I don't like Klopp cos I called out his mistakes, tells me how shallow your thinking actually is and how little you know about the enormous affection I have for him as a man and as a football manager. And NO, had we not tapped VVD up, Saints would not have made us pay 75m for him. We had to pay that cos they were going to take up the issue with the authorities which would have been a PR disaster for the club BUT clearly, that's not your problem either, is it? Cheers, mate.

15.) 18 Jan 2019
18 Jan 2019 00:00:23
Not excusing anyone for their actions but at the end of the day this is a multi-billion pound business being officiated by (at best) feckless morons.

FIFA could stop this if they wanted to.

Anyone caught illegally tapping up players is banned from the game. i. e. they are not allowed to coach or manage a club for a certain length of time and they pay a heavy fine.

Managers will cheat, players will cheat IF you let them.
The rewards massively outweigh the punishment.

It’s the same argument for simulation.

All that being said, I’m embarrassed that Liverpool FC is one of the main culprits.

16.) 18 Jan 2019
18 Jan 2019 01:41:39
agreed Ron, well said.

17.) 18 Jan 2019
18 Jan 2019 07:03:43
Well that escalated. I can see all the points of view and yes tapping up is against the rules. As for banning anyone doing it, that is difficult I feel as it is not alwys black and white or probably difficult to prove.

Ed01, I think u may have been a little harsh on me, u don't know what I do and I was merely raising an opinion. I understand that it is maybe incorrect compare and this maybe shows a lack of my knowledge.

{Ed001's Note - it wasn't meant to be harsh mate, it wasn't meant to be a dig, I was trying to explain how important they are seen to be in comparison to the rest of us. When someone is in the top 0.1% of their profession, like a Premier League player is, they are assets that need to be protected. I wasn't meaning it in a personal 'you' way, I was meaning you in a general worker way. The fact that you don't know that it is applicable in all businesses shows that you are not at the level they are. I realise it is difficult to emphasise something like this without it feeling like I am having a dig at you, but that is down to me rushing to put out a reply, unlike when I write an article and can spend the time rewriting a point over and over again if needed. Just put it aside as being you personally and think of it as like the royal we, referring to all of us that are not at the top of our professions. I apologise for not taking the time to rewrite it to make it less personal feeling, I was literally typing it as it came to my mind, so never took the time to develop the explanation into a well-formed argument.}

18.) 18 Jan 2019
18 Jan 2019 10:52:18
This tapping up thing is a whole load of nonsense. There is no need to justify it. If there was no rule very little would change. Contact via an agent is still potential head turning contact nonetheless.

{Ed002's Note - Pitiful.}