03 Nov 2018 22:47:36
I once got an offside decision wrong. This season in fact. The pass was played first time, and the runner seemed to come from very deep. I hesitated and kept my flag down. I felt I did the right decision, but 40% of me felt he could of been offside. They scored and both my assessors after the game told me he was offside, by about 4 yards. I say this because I don't mind admitting i got it wrong, and I say this because I'd love the premier league officials to have a platform to say their thoughts. That said, I don't think even today's linesman knew what he was flagging. He was too far behind play, and purely guessed, from the wrong angle. Never mind, on to the next game.

1.) 04 Nov 2018
03 Nov 2018 23:57:49
I think you are right Benny. He guessed. Refs do make mistakes. I would be less gutted if he was in line but judged that Mane was offside - cause it happened so fast and it would have been a close call. But being so far behind play and being in no position to make the call, he guessed.

2.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 00:09:48
only just saw thie highlights so have no feel for the game at all. but was just wondering about that vin dijk header at the end of the first half mate - it looks like Leno cleans him out, what does the ref consider when looking at aerial duels in the box? oh and also I should say I haven't read forums or been online much so have no idea if this is a controversy or not. just a wondering!

3.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 01:10:24
I wondered if the lino even knew the offside rule, it looked a lot like he was calling mane offside because he was off from the initial cross, I don’t see how he gets the call from the second phase wrong.

4.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 01:10:58
Honestly, in the letter of the law I’d given both penalties. Allison on miki and vvd. But it’s just become one of those things not to give. As it would cause more fuss to give, than not.

{Ed001's Note - I agree with you, both should have been penalties. They looked clear cut, neither keeper got anywhere near the ball and just whacked into the players, has to be a pen. And the Mane goal should have stood. I wanted to ask you about Kolasinac, every time he made a challenge he used his arms, either a very deliberate two handed shove in the back of his opponent or to pull them. Is that not a foul? If so why did he get free kicks on a couple of occasions after clearly deliberately pulling down a Liverpool player? I remember when we gave away a pen against Everton for a 'shove' when everyone said it was defo a pen as two hands were placed on the Everton player's back, even though to me it was a clear dive and no force was used. Now it seems it is ok to use both hands in the back and genuinely shove at full force a player out of the way to win a header etc, so which is it?}

5.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 02:49:03
could this be a regular thing? Ask Benny Baller about ref decisions? I would be interested in reading that. Maybe once a week we could send in questions and Benny could choose some to address, just a thought.

6.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 03:07:36
It has to be said, that game wound me up, I'm happy with the point but not happy enough because it should've been the three, it's really done my head in, useless officials once again costing us points, some of them are just incapable of doing their job! . I'm not going to sit here and say its just against us because it's not but that should've been a win, no ifs, buts or maybe's. Still though we're still unbeaten, bring on the next game.

7.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 04:40:02
Building on Ed001, early in the first half, Kolasinic had both hands round Salah’s waist and nothing was given. There is no conspiracy against Salah but I do think he’s been very unfortunate about not getting calls his way. Last week it was Bennett who went down after shoulder to shoulder challenges or pulling him down in the box. Yet when a powerfully build Zaha goes to ground after love taps, he wins free kicks and penalties.

I wonder how can simulation be reduced or eradicated when the referees are getting it so wrong - stay on your feet or ride a tackle, play to the whistle and you get nothing, go down easily and you might get something.

Still, the result is the consequence of the team not taking chances. It’s just annoying, as Salah pointed, that the standard of referring is so abysmal, for nearly every game.

On another note: I was watching an old game whereby Kuyt scored a late penalty to draw 1-1 with the gunners. In that match, Eboue who clearly put both hands on Lucas’ back and shoved him and hence the pen. Yet in that game, Shearer said Lucas had conned the ref. so. which is which?

{Ed001's Note - exactly mate. Though I would ignore Shearer, he flips flops about with the wind.}

8.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 05:30:08
I think the referee felt pressure from a boisterous home crowd, was trying to 'let the game flow', and was incompetent. There were a number of fouls, pullbacks especially, that he just completely ignored - one on Robertson in the second half was particularly infuriating as it was so obvious yet the ref just allowed play to continue - I thought he was poor, plain and simple.

As for the offisde? I think the initial pass to Firmino is were Mane 'looks' offisde - of course by the letter of the law he isn't - when Firmino hits his shot he is clearly on and any competent linesman would see that. I have to say I do not think we have been getting the rub of the green with many referees for a while, at least in the league.

9.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 08:34:31
Of course the Official got the decision wrong. Like every person on here more than likely made wrong decisions in their lives yesterday and will today and tomorrow. We are all human and not perfect. How an official is expected to keep up with pro athletes or footballs moving at 30-80 mph and make a decision at the blink of an eye and not get criticised is anyone’s guess. I did a referees course in 2009 as part of my work and at that time (Benny please correct me if I’m wrong) I qualified as a level 9 referee and had to be assessed 2-3 times to qualify me to level 5 which would allow me to officiate with no assessors. 1 adults game I did and although the assessor told me I did very well and had potential I told them I would never ref again. More than half my decisions were opinionated guess work from previously having played at a highish level and although probably being one of the fittest people on the pitch I could not keep up with play and the way I was spoken to was disgraceful and being not a small guy made me want to punch half of both teams let alone book them. Referees are not perfect but they can’t ever be it’s an impossible job. And without them there is no game.

10.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 09:03:31
Not being a smartarse but do athletes really go 80mph?

11.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 09:12:34
I thought it was a bad display by officials.

Both pens should have been given, I'd argue alissons was worse and after that was not given we were never going to get ours. I know it shouldn't work like that but it does.

Offside obviously wrong enough has been said.

I thought one of the worst decisions was in the 35th minute some time around there. I think ozil had it or xhaka, salah put him under pressure causing him to give it to firmino. Whoever it was simply threw themselves down and got a free at the halfway when we had a 3 on 3 break. It also greatly shifted momentum as they penned us in from said free kick for a few minutes after a spell we were on top.

I thought xhaka and ozil consistently went over easy.

Final thing I would specifically like to ask Benny as he has knowledge, the fabinho yellow card. I have a lot of sympathy for him as I used to pick up yellows all the time for catching people with elbows because I'm 6"5 and people's heads we're at my elbow. What is the specific rule or is there anything to take into account height difference in a 50/ 50 as I feel the taller person always looks as if they've done wrong and more often than not are punished as such.

Cheers all.

12.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 09:19:05
Reddo they certainly don’t but the balls might do hence why I said footballs not footballers 👍.

13.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 10:22:07
Read an article in the Irish Independent yesterday that the referee would suit Arsenal as he let's a lot a robust stuff go. That's how it played out to me.

{Ed002's Note - Clearly a conspiracy against Liverpool.}

14.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 10:06:56
Oh jeez that’s a lot of stuff to try an answer aha. I’ll start with ed001. So pushing and pulling, I can’t give you a definitive answer I’m afraid as these are opinionated fouls. I can’t remember too much of what kolas was doing, as I had a poor stream so couldn’t see much in detail. What I can say is arm pulling and pushing really gets on my tits. Yes it’s a contact sport, but to impede/ alter the oppositions body and momentum, is a foul, plain as any. I think I had 3 free kicks yesterday for arm pulling. Each referee is different, and has their own tolerance level on it. I for example shout the term “protect don’t push” when we are at corners or the drop zone of a goal kick. Like I really don’t mind a “guiding” hand on the back, to stop them backing into you, it’s a natural instinct, I mean no player wants to smash heads with the person they’re challenging in the air. I blow when you extend that guiding hand, as that then becomes the push. Doesn’t really answer your question does it Ed. It’s hard to on opiniated fouls. Like the referee and his team won’t even talk of Kolasinic, they’ll be looking at the key match decision instead.

What I will say that has gone in the right direction of pulling and pushing is the new DOGSO rules. “ denying obvious goal scoring opportunity “ with a clear difference between actually attempting to play the ball, or upper body fouls in which you clearly aren’t trying to play the ball.
Say your in on goal, the last defender is chasing, pulls out a huge slide tackle, but just misses the ball and takes the player down. It’s a yellow because he tried to play the ball. Same scenario but once the defender catches the attacked and say pulls or pushes him in the back, it is now a straight red card. The new DOGSO rule has certainly cleaned up all this “last defender he’s got to go” nonsense and is a good read if you have the time.

JK. First thing mate, you don’t keep up with the ball as a linesmen. You keep with the second to last defender or the attacker in possession if beyond said defender. And yes I do expect them to keep up with top athletes, as they too should be top athletes. I could probably peg Firmino, no chance of Salah or mane unfortunately though 😂
These are the best referees in the country, selected from 28,000 referees. If you can’t keep up, or you’re incompetent, you should be replaced, I understand and sympathise with an honest mistake, but this was so bad he will be replaced or demoted to championship for a while I’d have thought. I am in the top 5% of referees in the country level wise, an also part of the FAs refereeing excellence programme. There are some very good and fit referees coming through I can assure you. The image of referees is changing, the pot bellies are on their way out from 15 years ago. Like I’m saying this because you say how they shouldn’t keep up with top atheletes, I want people to know that the FA are really getting their act together on the fitness side of officials. In fact Friday I have to run 2400metres minimum in 12 minutes, followed by 2 50m students sprints in less that 7.5 seconds, to go up another level. It will only get harder too.

Shanek, mate we are in the same boat. Fabiniho yellow was never a yellow on its own. The height difference was unfair. Like fabs arm wasn’t even above his own shoulder level, but was enough for the other guys face. I think the yellow was more for the persistent fouling, literally was a 3 min spell where he kept giving away fouls and flying in.

Sorry for the waffle. I sort of ramble when i get going x.

{Ed001's Note - I know about the DOGSO thing, but this wasn't an opinion, it was the same as the Robertson one, it was clear and obvious each time. One in particular stands out as he shoved Trent probably 5 yards just as he went to jump for a header, so Trent was miles out of the way and he had a clean jump to clear the ball. It was blatant, right in front of both linesman and referee and yet nothing was given. That is not an opinion when you can see it clear as day and the player is being shoved two handed out of the way of an oncoming ball. I know these might seem small fry, but they are taking place on the edge of the pitch, next to a slope and then advertising hoardings, it would not have taken much for a push to launch someone into those. Also, when it is a repeat offence, like you mentioned with Fabinho, it should be eventually leading to a caution. This is not a mistimed challenge, it is deliberately going out to circumvent the rules.}

15.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 11:18:01
Benny cheers for the reply mate. I totally agree with the linesman point and you are 100% correct they only have to keep up with last defender but yesterday Bobby and Mane were way beyond the last defender and way beyond the linesman. Officials are very fit individuals and have to be mentally fit as well as physically. I’m in the military and the 2400 metre test 1.5 mile run would be a fail at 12 mins. Professional footballers would be running that sub 9 minutes easily. Great to hear from a pro ref on here though mate. And hope you make it to the summit.

16.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 11:29:27
Totally Ed, its a form of cheating that players do.
However they are opinionated fouls. Like literally, this is what its classed as in the refereeing world. Most things in a game are opinionated fouls. Really, the only things that are, are strict letter of the laws 1-17, ball in and out of play, goal line crossing, and offsides. Things that can't be changed. As for pulling pushing, some hate it, like me, some let it go for, whatever reasons.
If you have a gripe with him not giving them, then you're more than welcome to not be appreciative of his style of refereeing. If he is not giving the clear and obvious fouls, then your gripe is with the people who select the group 1s. For the record, never have and never will rate Andre Marriner. Michael Oliver, Bobby Madley, Mike Dean and Martin Atkinson have been our countries best referees, and we have lost one of them. The rest need changing imo.

{Ed001's Note - Mike Dean is duckin awful.}

17.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 11:58:46
aha na i like Dean, loves a good advantage and brings proper character rather than being a drone.

18.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 12:06:43
Just chill ed1. All those ref decisions are nothing compared to the farce in Fiorentina vs Roma. I don't know how Simeone got a penalty against the Roma keeper and I think they even had VAR (not sure though) that was as blatant a dive as I have seen all year.

19.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 12:47:29
Mike Dean is more of a celebrity than a ref. Hie is blooming awful. Cost Wolves a point vs Spurs last night BUT again, nothing shocking about that, lol.

20.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 12:59:29
thanks Benny Baller. v insightful.
based on what you just said, wouldn't a huge chunk of what pundits discuss in the studio become pointless? they always like to say 'based on the letter of the law', 'he's got 2 hands, that's a clear foul', etc. and tons of nonsense. Given that a lot of these are opinionated fouls, then surely, it is based on the referee's call and anyone else's opinion is secondary within the context of a match.

nonetheless, i think you are right. i probably will not be able to appreciate the style of some referees and that is fine, such is life. but wouldn't it be better then for the referees to have a platform to explain their decisions, given that a mass of it are opinionated? of course we are not going to demand them to explain every single decision that went against respective teams, but being given the platform to articulate their rationale, would it not ensure greater clarity, accountability and improve the overall quality of referring?

21.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 13:34:38
No conspiracy at all ED02 just pointing out the referee let's a lot go. On another day a less leniant referee would give them decisions.

{Ed0333's Note - we should have won that game even with inept officialdom.

22.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 13:34:38
No conspiracy at all ED02 just pointing out the referee let's a lot go. On another day a less leniant referee would give them decisions.

23.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 14:36:17
It's always going to happen Benny that's why it's called human error mate but gives us something to moan about.

24.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 14:55:37
Benny, I guess this is in reference to Mane disallowed goal, which I agree with you, the referee should've explained at the end of the game why it was given offside . I think its fifty fifty, when the ball was through to Firmino, Sadio was clearly offside, at that time Mane shouldn't have followed the ball or interfere in play, he should have stopped or move away until Roberto touches it, but he did follow the ball, so when the ball rebounded, he was deemed to have gained an advantage from an offside position.

25.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 14:57:36
Spot on, Ed re: Kolasinac. There was a time where he had 4 bites at Salah to the point that our commentator for the PL here in Brussels, was losing his marbles as to why the perrenially incompetent Andre Mariner did not give a foul. Did you also see where Xaka clearly blocked Mane's path when he had gone past him and Mariner gave a throw in to Arsenal? I also agree that both GK incidents should have been penalties. It also seems like those of us on here actually know more about the offside rules than the refs/ linos do and if that is the case, we are all in trouble this season.

26.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 16:20:39
BR, much as it is frustrating, i don't think anyone is in trouble this season as this sub-standard of refereeing has been going on some time now. and the call last night wasn't as bad when you recall our match against spurs last season:

Lino: did Lovern touch the ball?

Ref: I don't know. You see anything on the telly?

Lino: I need to know. If he didn't touch the ball it's offside. If he did, it isnt. so did her?

Ref: I don't know. I'm going to give a pen.

No understanding of the offside rule. No basic principles of refereeing what you saw and not what you guessed. No adherence to non-VAR in a PL match (though this point was largely inconsequential) .

Jon Moss is still a PL referee. We survived last season. We'll get over a whole load of poor refereeing performances this season eventually.

What I'm beginning to get annoyed though is with commentators and pundits making up stories to cover-up for the referees - and I don't understand what's their reason for doing so! If you heard the commentary I heard of the game, you would think the referee was top notch and got every single decision right!

27.) 04 Nov 2018
04 Nov 2018 18:07:54
Love your posts as always, Sgynwa. That whole cock-up in the Spurs game as you described, still makes my blood boil. I mean, this is the type of rubbish that not just LFC, but the whole EPL (and lower divisions) are subjected. These bozos were actually making it up as they went along in REAL time.

I know we will survive and rise above this BUT the margins are so thin right now cos every bad call (esp. one so blatant as this one) can cost you the league, top 4 or survival and it has to be fixed. I guess they won't cos the PL power brokers seem to like the controversies cos it sell papers, clicks and ratings. As for the pundits, I have NEVER cared for any of them esp. Shearer the flip-flopper while Gary Neville likes to tell other managers what they should or should not be doing whereas, he lacks any type of credibility on the issue based on his "glorious" managerial CV. Rio is the ONLY good pundit out there, IMO.