14 May 2018 20:00:17
Hi guys,

Great result last night and happy we have no injuries and will be ready for the all out assault on the CL trophy in two weeks. I was at the pub watching the game (Rooster's Pub in Brussels. Come on down when in Brussels) with other LFC fans and low and behold, I met a Norwegian named Ole Hermann Borgan. Don't know who he is? He is a retired FIFA ref/ lino who retired in 2006 and is a MAD Liverpool fan. I could not believe my luck. We had a hoot of a time. We spoke about all things football.

I asked him if he had reffed any LFC games in Europe and he said he had reffed 5 of them. He said he was the ref during the LFC v Roma game in the 01/ 02 season at Anfield. I asked him how it is to ref a game where one of the teams is the one you are mad for. He said it was quite easy cos as a ref, you shut it out and do your job. I then asked him who was the best player he had ever seen. He said he had watched a tonne of them (BUT to him, Zidane was petry in motion.

Now while all this is happening, our friend Kevin Friend is having a true stinker at Anfield and when he did not award LFC a pen in both situations, HE WAS LOSING IT. I then asked him about refs in England and if he rates them. Borgan said that he thinks English refs are arrogant and are not focused on actually doing the job. They are focused on being seen as tough or trying to prove a point that they are in charge instead of just being a co-stakeholder in the game and trying to do the best job possible.

I then asked him about the Roma pen with TAA and he said that had that been him, he would have awarded a pen, end of. HOWEVER, he said since the ref had a clear view of it, he thinks the ref interpreted that TAA did not deliberately raise his hand up and had no chance of bringing his arms down cos he was doing his best to try and get in front of the shot (part of the hand ball rule, btw) hence, did not give it. I agree cos I thought the same thing when it happened BUT Go figure

Sorry for the long post BUT just wanted to share that with you guys. On to Kiev where we #TakeThe6th!

1.) 14 May 2018
14 May 2018 20:29:58
Great post and different from the usual stuff, thanks for sharing. And hard to argue with him regards English refs I've been astonished with some of the displays this season and absolutely no explanation for it! (untouchable) attitude by the majority.

2.) 14 May 2018
14 May 2018 20:31:07
Thanks for sharing mate.

3.) 14 May 2018
14 May 2018 20:45:26
I am fed up with the different interpretations used in the media with regard to handball.
Handball has to be deliberate. If it's accidental it's not handball.
Pundits saying that the ball traveled a long way or his hand was raised just cloud the issue.

Against Roma Trent was lifting his foot to block the ball so his arm came up as well. In my opinion it wasn't deliberate and therefore not a pen.
Having said that the alleged handball by Duffy? (not sure it was him) yesterday was a misjudgement by the defender. Even though the ball had traveled a fair distance, I still don't think it was deliberate and wouldn't have given the penalty.

Problem is its open to interpretation and most people would give both penalties. Don't think VAR will help either because again it's all down to intent and how the referee interprets the situation.

4.) 14 May 2018
14 May 2018 21:02:32
Am just fed up with how a ref stands 10 feet away am seams to go blind to a handball. Just waves it away like it never happened and am not just talking about Liverpool the refs are so poor now it’s embracing.

5.) 14 May 2018
14 May 2018 21:04:56
Thanks for the responses, lads and MAD props to the Ed's for posting it cos this moment was one of the best football moments in my life.

Never Forget, I am near certain that the refs and pundits in England, have next to no clue about the footie rules so just make them up to fit the narrative they wanna propagate, IMO. Also the reason I asked him that was to get not just the perspective of a FIFA ref BUT also one from a non English person or pundit and he gave his honest opinion on the TAA issue.

Also since I speak French, I watched a lot of French punditry on youtube about the Roma game and a couple of them were the only ones who offered the scenario you, myself and Borgan did on TAA about him not deliberately raising his hands up while lifting his foot to block the shot. That is as UNDELIBERATE a handball as you will find and tho some of them wanted a pen, a couple others said it was not cos that was the only reason the ref did not give it cos he was right on top of the play.

Also, I agree that VAR would not have helped in the Brighton incidents as well cos I thought the tackle on Salah was not a pen cos Duffy got a decent touch on the ball. Had that been given as a pen against us, I would have been losing it. True LFC fan tho, Borgan disagreed and wanted both his pens. and wanted them NOW, lol. YNNWA!

6.) 14 May 2018
14 May 2018 21:18:23
Longthing, it was what Borgan was referring to as in, English refs are too full of themselves, too arrogant and always wanna prove a point that they are in charge, all things that have NOTHING to do with the game they are officiating. They should be focusing on reffing the game and being dedicated to do the best job they can instead of worrying about all this other nonsense. Their priorities are outside of the game itself, I think.

7.) 14 May 2018
14 May 2018 21:40:04
Totally agree. I think the worst culprits are the ex referees they get on to analyse the refs performance. They justify bad decisions like the Kane offside/ penalty or the Solanke handball/ goal v West Brom. It then becomes widely reported as a correct decision which just confuses matters.

I didn't think it was a foul on Salah either, but it was very similar to a penalty Migs gave away where he miskicked a clearance and took Vardy out. He got the ball but apparently "not enough of the ball"🙄.

8.) 14 May 2018
14 May 2018 23:06:18
For a handball to be considered deliberate, the ref will take into account whether the hand was moved towards the ball and also whether the arm was placed in a an unnatural position. For example, Harry Kewell handball in the world cup vs Ghana. He had his arm out from his body - I agreed with the decision.

9.) 14 May 2018
14 May 2018 23:15:15
Hi Longthing 76 - embracing is what Jurgen Klopp does - EMBARRASING is what referees do.

10.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 11:13:50
Thanks for the great post BRover, lovely story.

What surprises me most is that I don't see many people talking about the "handball" by Klavan for Roma's last second penalty. I thought that was an absolutely atrocious decision as his hand was by his side, not raised, not in an unnatural position, and he certainly was not deliberately blocking the ball with his hand.
All this subjectivity about what constitutes handball is why we sometimes see defenders trying to block crosses with their hands behind their backs (which is clearly unnatural and I hope they are wearing groin guards when they do so) .

The handball rule clearly needs to be clarified.

{Ed001's Note - in Spain if it hits the hand it is adjudged to be handball, hence why players who played in Spain put their hands behind their back. Perhaps that is the only way to clear up the matter?}

11.) 16 May 2018
16 May 2018 07:54:02
Thanks Ed001, I was unaware of that rule in Spain. I guess such a rule would help put all subjectivity out of the window, even if it does seem rather silly. I'm almost surprised we don't see more players in Spain trying to kick the ball against defenders' hands when they're in the penalty box - it might just be easier than aiming for the top corner! :P.

{Ed001's Note - they did do that for a while, hence why they all put their hands behind their backs.}