04 May 2017 21:40:08
Hi ed1 prob not going to be liked for this lol but here goes i've been having a debate lately about fergie the ex man utd manager i personally think he is over rated for what he achieved and all this he's the greatest british manager ever etc just doesn't sit with me. Why do you think he had so much dominance in the league for so long what were his strenghts and weaknesses i would say his europe success was a major weakness tbh but success is 2 champ leagues in 26 years apparently. i was born in 83 in aberdeen so don't recall his europe win with the dons but i beleive this was at a time when aberdeen had lots of money a bit like man u as when he was scotland manager he was unsuccessful what's your thoughts on fergie and how successful / good was he actually?

{Ed001's Note - he certainly isn't the greatest British manager ever, Paisley was. So, if someone rates him as that, then they over rate him. However he was an excellent manager, though a lot of his success was rooted in bullying officials.

It started in Scotland, when he would instruct his players to intimidate officials in order to get decisions to go the way of his team. His excuse there was that he needed to do something to even up the advantage that the Old Firm otherwise had of being favoured by the refs. In England, it just added to the advantage of being in charge of the big team that get the balance of decisions going their way.

His strengths were his man management, he did not treat all players the same, he knew when to give a player leeway and when to be on his back. His treatment of Cantona, who would be allowed to get away with almost anything, because Fergie knew he would put in the effort on the training ground and pitch anyway. He was careful to try and protect the team and it made them grateful to him, which made them try harder.

He also was not afraid to delegate to the right people. Fergie was not a hands on coach, he would have a number 2 who ran the training, which freed him up for other things.

The main weaknesses were tactically he could be done, he suffered in Europe because it was more tactical. He was good, but not top class, which is not enough in Europe most of the time. You need to be top class when you get to the final stages.

The other weakness was his dictatorship turned sour in a lot of ways, costing the club a lot of promising youth players who would not sign for his son's agency.

To be honest, he had so much more money than the competition for huge portions of his reign that it is difficult to really judge him. Even the team of 'kids' was far from a youth team. It had a core of expensive signings with a few kids sprinkled in. For the time it was a hugely expensive squad he assembled, though it does not look it now. Money still has to be spent well to be an advantage though, so that has to go down as a strength, he spent well, in the early days.}

1.) 04 May 2017
04 May 2017 22:39:02
For me he's one of the greatest manager of all time. The amount of time he spent at the highest level and continued winning trophies for so long its unbelievable. don't forget he continued building United squad/ teams w/ o struggling in epl which is amazing.

{Ed025's Note - im with you kopite..

2.) 05 May 2017
05 May 2017 05:10:07
He won the league a few times in the end with a terrible team of players (imo) that as individuals you would really want but somehow always got over the line.

{Ed001's Note - his longevity alone, in terms of continuing to win trophies, make him one of the greatest. However, no one can compare to Paisley's incredible record and the way his team dominated the whole of European football in a way no team before or since has.

However, Fergie is up there with Busby and Clough etc as arguably the second best ever.

Realised I missed a couple of his strengths out above. He was ruthless with those who needed to go, for whatever reason, unlike say Shanks, who was too loyal. It was only at the end of his reign that he stuck with players who were not good enough.

Also his decisive substitutions were a big part of his success. Unlike many other managers, he was always willing to make changes to go for a win. Or, if he had been done tactically by the opponent, he would look to make changes to wrest control of the game from the opposition. Many managers will just have their players drop deeper and try not to lose by too much but Fergie ALWAYS wanted the win.}

3.) 05 May 2017
05 May 2017 07:07:25
ED001.

I'm so pleased to read your post regarding Fergie. I gave similar debates with a group of pals that support ManU.

They just can't admit, have the sense, do not know their clubs history or are just too young to realise that Fergie spent huge in his early days to secure his first league title, remember it took him from 86 to 92 to achieve this!

Martin Edwards funded Fergie for big money named signings from 91 onwards, knowing that the riches of the premier league were just around the corner and of course the club first floated on the stock exchange in 91 to help find the new stadium and invest in the team. It really Dora's make me laugh then they slate city and Chelsea for busing the league lol.

I remember going to old Trafford away in the early days and seeing "Fergie out " banners around the stadium. The investment given to him by Edwards and the money jnjected into the club from the first floatation certainly saved his arse.

{Ed001's Note - you have to congratulate Edwards for having the sense to realise that Fergie needed backing rather than replacing. Also Fergie has to be congratulated for not taking the easy way out and placating the players there when he arrived. He saw the problems and worked to fix them.}

4.) 05 May 2017
05 May 2017 07:39:43
Edwards also realised that football was about to embark on a totally new era and that the whole dynamics and principles of football were about to change. Unfortunately our board stoold still and have paid the price big time in doing so - in my opinion.

My point regarding Ferguson still stands and that he did not build his teams on a shoe string budget.

Could you imagine if Rupert Murdoch’s British Sky Broadcasting corporation's bid to take over United was successful! Being blocked by UK competition
authorities was s good thing in my opinion!

{Ed001's Note - agreed.}

5.) 05 May 2017
05 May 2017 08:20:22
Agreed, he was lucky to have Edwards and at a time when no other club in england could foresee the huge riches ahead. Makes everyone else look daft really with hindsight being 20/ 20 and all. Still a quality man manager and the team he had towards the end had no right to win anything really. Yet they did.
He built at least two quality teams and would be regarded higher if a) he'd left the team in a decent state and b) dominated in Europe more. Both of these Shanks did and thus is no 1.
Not bias tho. 😉.

{Ed001's Note - you mean Paisley surely?}

6.) 05 May 2017
05 May 2017 08:22:08
Where would united's present manager fit into the discussion?

I know he's not British but love him or hate him (hate) his record speaks for itself.

He's come a long way from when he was Bobby Robsons translated at Barca.

I don't remember much about Shanklys time only really the shock of the resignation but I remember Bob taking over and the magical times enjoyed on our clubs rise to domestic and European dominance.

Compare who you want ever from world football against Bob Paisley and in my book Bob wins, hands down.

Modesty, dignity and decency are words you can't associate with Fergie, Clough or Jose but they describe Bob Paisley down to the ground.

{Ed025's Note - yeah paisley was very good, not the best ever though imo but a very nice guy and football man, liverpool supporters have this thing that every manager has been the best manager ever and that every liverpool player is the best player in the world, add to that your supporters are the best in the world and i think you know where im going with this...there is nothing wrong with it i suppose though dermot..

7.) 05 May 2017
05 May 2017 11:03:00
Ed where would you rate Brian Clough, Ron Saunders, and Bobby Robson who were managing at the same sort of time as Paisley, and each having a measure of success?

{Ed001's Note - I love Bobby Robson but he was defo next tier down, as was Clough. Not so sure about Saunders, I would put him a tier down from them.}

8.) 05 May 2017
05 May 2017 10:48:35
at the very top with some quality players for absolute years yet only won 2 European cups. Not enough for the players and teams he had.

9.) 05 May 2017
05 May 2017 10:49:13
This goes beyond rivalry, you acknowledge and respect those who transcend the game and Fergie did that. I didn't always like him but he's, by a long way, the best manager in my era as a fan.

10.) 05 May 2017
05 May 2017 08:44:47
The way Paisley dominated Europe alone pits this argument to bed. As Ed001 correctly pointed out.

{Ed025's Note - it was a knockout then nicky and anyone could win it on their day, plus there were not many teams in it mate..

11.) 05 May 2017
05 May 2017 09:45:51
Agree ed25 paisley was great no doubt but can't be compared to fergie tho. We are talking abt 25 yrs of success and the situation was completely different. Fergie had to build a side who hadn't won a league for 26 yrs.

{Ed025's Note - no argument from me there kopite..

12.) 06 May 2017
06 May 2017 01:15:59
Thanks for the reply Ed. (I think)

If not Bob Paisley?
Who do you think was the best ever?

{Ed007's Note - Jock Stein.}

13.) 08 May 2017
06 May 2017 23:54:30
Thanks for reply ed.

The Lisbon Lions.
Now that will never be seen again.

The great Jock Stein is a legendry figure in his own right.
He won 8 or 9 titles in a row and the European cup with the Lions.

He also spotted and guided a young Kenny Dalglish who was no 8 at the Bhoys and was made captain as well I think.

The main difference between Stein and Paisley was Stein went into international management whereas Paisley didn't.

Celtic are a huge club here in Ireland and I may get in trouble for saying this but for me Paisley was the best bar none.

I'm sure you may not agree.

{Ed007's Note - I'll admit my bias, for obvious reasons but if I was a Liverpool fan I'd probably agree with you about Paisley.